HL Deb 12 March 1970 vol 308 cc889-91
LORD SOPER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the fact that more than half the people are now non-smokers, they will—

  1. (a) give a general policy direction to all nationalised transport undertakings that smoking shall be prohibited in all enclosed spaces under their control to which the public has access: and
  2. (b) introduce legislation and take administrative action to enjoin local authorities to enforce the same policy.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (BARONESS SEROTA)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government do not consider that compulsion should be used to require undertakings and authorities to introduce restrictions on smokers in public places, but they actively encourage voluntary restriction. As part of the Government's campaign to spread information about smoking risks, my right honourable friend the then Minister of Health, in 1967, drew the attention of nationalised transport under-takings, local authorities and others to the arguments in favour of restrictions in public places.

LORD SOPER

My Lords, while appreciating the Answer of my noble friend and containing a certain measure of disappointment, and, further, recognising the concern which I am sure not only the Government but this House undoubtedly shares about the ever-increasing perils of tobacco and of the smoking habit in general, may I ask two questions? The first is: are not the Government democratically justified in taking the action called for in my Question and thus reducing the total volume of smoking in the community? And, secondly, would not my noble friend agree that, in the interests of the minority, there is a profound difference between a general policy which permits smoking in public places as a normal practice and one which accepts non-smoking as the normal practice; and ought not smoking, rather than non-smoking, now to become the exception to the rule?

BARONESS SEROTA

My Lords, there are in fact no official statistics of the number who smoke. Therefore I should be most interested to know where the noble Lord gels his minority and majority from.

LORD SOPER

My Lords, from the Ministry of Health and from the tobacco organisations, which I am quite certain would not overestimate the number of non-smokers.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, could not the Minister persuade the Government to do more on this matter? Does she not agree that it is quite intolerable that those of us who do not smoke should have every visit to the cinema ruined by those who do? Further, would she not ask local authorities whether it would be possible to do in cinemas here what I believe is the custom in America; that is, to have smoking in the upper part of the house and not in the lower part?

BARONESS SEROTA

My Lords, the answer that I gave to my noble friend Lord Soper related entirely to the Government's attitude to the introduction of compulsion in public places. My right honourable friend in another place has already stated the Government's policy in relation to further legislation, and especially in relation to advertising. With regard to the noble Baroness's question, these matters were included in the statement that my right honourable friend the then Minister of Health made. If she would like to see it I will pass her a copy of the statement, which made suggestions of the kind she has raised.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I am quite pleased with the Answer? Is she further aware of our hope that the Government will not be so illiberal as to prevent our having a little solace on the top of a bus?

LORD PLATT

My Lords, are Her Majesty's Government aware that from the report of the Royal College of Physicians on smoking, published in 1962, it was clear that, taking the male and female population together, more than 50 per cent, were non-smokers? Further, if Her Majesty's Government are not prepared to go so far as the noble Lord. Lord Soper, would like and to prohibit smoking in enclosed places, could they not see that there is reserved space for non-smokers in all aeroplanes and in all restaurants, including dining cars?

VISCOUNT GAGE

My Lords, considering the enormous burden of taxation which is now borne by smokers, should they not have due consideration?

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend how she reconciles the attitude of the Government towards smoking in public places with the fact that they prohibit it in the two Debating Chambers of the Palace of Westminster?