§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps are being taken to ensure that coke oven gas produced by the National Coal Board and the British Steel Corporation will continue to find useful applications, despite the introduction of North Sea gas, and not be "flared off" to the atmosphere waste-fully and to the detriment of the environment.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, MINISTRY OF TECHNOLOGY (LORD DELACOURT-SMITH)My Lords, the industries concerned are discussing possibilities with a view to finding uses for the gas.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, may I ask him whether the time has not arrived when we should be considering a co-ordinated national fuel policy?
§ LORD DELACOURT-SMITHMy Lords, consideration has of course been given to many aspects of fuel policy. The Question on the Paper, however, deals with a rather narrower issue than that, and I am satisfied that discussions to deal with the specific problem to which my noble friend has drawn attention are proceeding among the interested parties.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, now that North Sea gas is coming into our homes, can my noble friend say whether he is satisfied (because doubts have been expressed) that the National Coal Board will be able to produce 688 enough smokeless fuel as a long-term measure for 1971 and 1972? Is my noble friend satisfied that arrangements are being made to cope with all the needs that will arise consequent upon the development of smokeless zone areas?
§ LORD DELACOURT-SMITHMy Lords, close attention is being given to this matter, but I suggest that it goes a little wide of the original Question.
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, would my noble friend agree that the economics of the coking industry depend largely upon being able to sell the gas? The iron and steel industry require some-thing of the order of 20 million tons of coke per annum, and if it is not forth-coming will my noble friend say what will be the policy for supplying this from external sources?
§ LORD DELACOURT-SMITHMy Lords, I am not sure that I would go as far as my noble friend implied in his question, but it is certainly true that, with the availability of cheap natural gas, the operators of coke ovens must expect that their gas by-product will be at a discount; and they must also expect the price to reflect the cost of distributing this gas through the separate mains which are required, as well as of purifying it to the degree necessary to reach an acceptable standard. These matters obviously bear upon the economics of the industry.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords arising from that reply may I ask my noble friend whether it is not a fact that if the National Coal Board, as one of the two concerns I have mentioned, lose this market for gas it is likely to lose an income of something approaching £- million a year, and if that is lost then obviously coke is in danger of being priced out of the market? Will this fact be borne in mind when the economics of the situation are being considered?
§ LORD DELACOURT-SMITHMy Lords, in relation to the Question put down by my noble friend, what is being considered primarily at the present time is finding alternative uses to which the coke oven gas referred to may be put. I think it will help to put this matter into perspective if I recall that two-thirds of the present production of coke oven gas is already used either in the coke ovens or in adjacent steelworks, and it is 689 believed that more could be used in this way. In addition, the possibility of the absorption of this gas in a useful way by other industrial users is being actively pursued.
§ LORD SOMERSMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that a large section of the public are highly reluctant to go over to North Sea gas, in view of the fact that it has not been proved to be 100 per cent, safe, and that in those places where it is being forced on them they will probably go over either to oil or to electricity?
§ LORD DELACOURT-SMITHMy Lords, as the noble Lord will know, an inquiry bearing upon the point he has raised has recently been announced in another place. But, of course, the coke oven gas to which we are addressing our attention has at any time in the past been used only to a limited extent in certain localities for domestic purposes, and the present consideration is being given to its use for industrial purposes. However, there will continue to be for some period of time, alongside the use of natural gas, the use of town gas.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether, if the attempt to deal with the situation as he has indicated should fail, consideration will be given to the inevitable pollution of the atmosphere if this gas has to be flared off?
§ LORD DELACOURT-SMITHMy Lords, I can assure my noble friend that the pollution aspects of this question are very much in the mind of the Government, but I would emphasise that at present this is a matter for discussion between the industries, both private and nationalised, concerned. The Ministry of Technology are keeping in touch with these discussions but, as I say, they are primarily between the industrial interests concerned.