HL Deb 22 July 1970 vol 311 cc970-2

2.49 p.m.

LORD GISBOROUGH

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the concession now enjoyed by certain old-age pensioners, who pay a shilling a year for a television licence, can be extended to all old-age pensioners.]

LORD DENHAM

No, my Lords. The policy of Her Majesty's Government is to provide adequate cash benefits which all recipients can spend as they think best and not to give benefits in kind. The old people's homes' licence was not provided as a welfare concession but to correct an anomaly in the licensing requirements of old people's homes. It would be wrong to extend its scope.

LORD GISBOROUGH

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. But will he not agree that it is very unfair that those old-age pensioners who do not enjoy the services of a resident warden and common rooms should now have to pay the full price of the television licence, as opposed to those people who have council houses and who, being close to a warden, can get their licences for one shilling? Would it not be possible, instead of perpetuating this anomaly, to plan for the eventual equalisation of treatment to all old age pensioners?

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I realise that anomalies exist. Wherever you draw the line there will be anomalies. Perhaps if one extended this right to all old-age pensioners there would be more anomalies than ever, because the old-age pensioners who did not have television sets—who could not afford them or did not want them—would get no benefit whatever. But I shall certainly draw the attention of my right honourable friend to what the noble Lord has said.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us what degree of impoverishment entitles an old-age pensioner to a cheap television licence? I am interested, as an old-age pensioner. Under what conditions would I qualify?

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I am afraid that I have to tell the noble Baroness that the only way in which she can qualify is to have a room in one of the homes which qualify under the scheme.

LORD GISBOROUGH

My Lords, is it not true that where an old-age pensioner has a bungalow within the pre- cincts of an old people's home, but does not live in the old people's home, he or she will qualify?

LORD DENHAM

I am afraid that I should require notice of that question, my Lords.

BARONESS STOCKS

My Lords, some old people's homes are extremely expensive. The one that I myself contemplate going into would take up quite a large proportion of my income, and I should not really feel justified in paying only a shilling a year for my television licence.

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I somehow do not think that this scheme was brought into being for the benefit of people such as the noble Baroness.