HL Deb 19 February 1970 vol 307 cc1285-7
BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether medical schools which limit the admission of women students to a small percentage of the total intake are contravening the Sex Disqualification Removal Act 1919.]

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, it is not for Her Majesty's Government to construe the law. Moreover, I am advised that if there were any contravention of the Sex Disqualification Removal Act 1919 it would not be for Her Majesty's Government to enforce the law, and that the remedy would be by way of civil injunction by any woman aggrieved.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, am I to understand from that Answer that my noble friend agrees with me that the law is being contravened? —and I ask this because of the fact that this particular contravention bears very hardly on some of the most brilliant girls in the country, and is anti-social. Am I further to understand that the Government are going to do nothing when the law is being broken?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend will appreciate that as a representative of the Government I cannot say that the law is being contravened. As she will know better than I, the universities are autonomous and the medical schools are equally so. I can only say that I have studied very carefully the prospectuses of various medical schools and I am interested to see that at any rate in two cases there is a reservation for a number of places for women: in other words, that they are being discriminated in favour of, rather than against. But, of course, that does not apply to all prospectuses.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, may I ask one more question, in view of what my noble friend has said? Is she aware that the University Grants Commission has specified only that a medical school in London must have a women intake of over 15 per cent.? And is she aware that Charing Cross Hospital has 25 per cent., which they regard as very generous, and that the only medical school in London which approaches the matter on an equitable basis is the Royal Free, which takes 50 per cent. women and 50 per cent. men? In view of our desperate shortage of doctors, why should not all the medical schools take some of these brilliant girls who are breaking their hearts because they cannot get a place?

BARONESS GAITSKELL

My Lords, in support of my noble friend Lady Summerskill, may I ask my noble friend whether she is aware that in the United Nations when it comes to a comparison between the number of women medical doctors that we in the Western World and in the United Kingdom have and the number that there are in the Communist countries, we are absolutely put to shame?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I am sure that both my noble friends will appreciate my position—I wish I were speaking from where they are speaking rather than from here. But I should like to say straight away that I am aware of the facts mentioned by my noble friends Lady Gaitskell and Lady Summerskill. The only thing I would say on those figures is that there has been an increase in the number of women taking up places in medical schools. I would whole-heartedly agree that anything that a man can do a woman can do as well, if not better.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that her original Answer was a statement that Her Majesty's Government are totally indifferent as to whether the law is kept or not? Is that the attitude of the Government?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, perhaps I might refer my noble friend to the Answer; and I may say to my noble friends that this is a little hard on me—

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

But carry on!

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I said that it is not for Her Majesty's Government to construe the law. I am advised that this is the line that must be taken in this matter.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are many males who would also welcome an increase in the number of women doctors?

LORD STRANGE

My Lords, may I assure the noble Baroness that I am not going to ask any question about the Isle of Man?