HL Deb 04 February 1970 vol 307 cc624-6
LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what were the conclusions reached by the Nuclear Defence Affairs Committee of NATO in December last in respect of circumstances in which NATO members would use nuclear weapons, if deemed necessary in the event of hostilities initiated by Warsaw Pact Powers; against what targets NATO nuclear weapons would be directed; and whether calculations have been made of the devastation that would be inflicted on this country by reprisals and the consequential escalation of nuclear warfare.]

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the papers approved by the NATO Ministerial Council last December, on the recommendation of the Nuclear Defence Affairs Committee, prescribed guidelines for the initial use of tactical nuclear weapons if they became a necessary part of the response to aggression against the Alliance, and also dealt with the means of reaching this grave decision. I cannot give information about the targets against which nuclear weapons might be directed. Nor can I believe that the noble Lord seriously doubts that the devastating effects of nuclear weapons are constantly in the minds of all those concerned in planning their possible use. The overriding point and purpose of the Alliance's strategy is, as it has always been, to ensure that these weapons will never be used.

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for his reply, may I ask whether it does not mean that this country is prepared in certain circumstances, rightly or wrongly, to initiate the employment of these weapons? Secondly, may I ask whether it is not a fact that the directives of the attack, if issued from here, will be against the Warsaw Pact countries other than Russia?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, as regards the second point, I think my noble friend is quoting from a newspaper article, and that is as accurate as many newspaper articles are. As regards the question of whether we should be forced to use these weapons at an early stage, my noble friend will, I hope, appreciate that what the NATO Ministers are trying to do is to get away from the original trip-wire philosophy, when the weapons would be used immediately, to a flexible response, when nuclear weapons would be used only if conventional warfare were unable to contain the aggression.

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, would my noble friend kindly answer the second question I asked regarding the actual targets?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I said I could not do that.

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, would the noble Lord be prepared to accept my congratulations on declining to disclose the nuclear strategy of this country to our enemies, even though urged to do so, however innocently, by his noble friend?

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the philosophy I learnt at a church school is that if one strikes you on one cheek you turn the other one his way; and that in the defence of this country, if anyone drops a nuclear bomb on us, we must have the powers of retaliation?

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend (who courteously gave me answers to a similar question some weeks ago) whether he has taken into consideration the very responsible evidence of concern in European countries, in America and In this country, since the decision to use nuclear weapons for these purposes was taken; and, if so, whether there will be any reconsideration of this policy?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the NATO Ministerial Council is constantly considering policy, but the hard fact of life is that unless we are willing to spend a quite crippling amount of money on conventional weapons we must continue to depend for our safety on nuclear weapons of one form or another.

LORD BALOGH

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the views which he has just expressed represent the Government's policy?—because they do not sound completely all square with some of the pronouncements made by other Ministers.

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I am only stating as best I can the policy arising from the NATO Ministerial Council decision of last December.

LORD BALOGH

My Lords, with respect, can my noble friend say that this is the British Government's policy or the policy of NATO Governments? Whose policy is it? Certainly one has heard Ministers speaking in very different tones from those implied by his answer.

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I can only repeat that this is NATO Ministerial policy.