HL Deb 14 December 1970 vol 313 cc1165-7

2.44 p.m.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is their intention to institute a public inquiry into the claim for increased wage rates by workpeople in the electricity supply industry.]

EARL ST. ALDWYN

My Lords, I would ask the noble Lord to await the Statement which, as my noble friend the Leader of the House has already announced, my noble friend Lord Drumalbyn will be making at a suitable moment after 3.30 p.m.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, perhaps the noble Earl will not object if I ask him one or two supplementary questions in order to clarify the issue in advance. Has it occurred to the noble Earl that the Goverment might have ordered a public inquiry early last week, and thus saved the public a great deal of inconvenience and hardship? Is he aware that the Government have said frequently in the past, at the General Election and subsequently, that they would not intervene in an industrial dispute, yet in the last 24 or 48 hours they have intervened? Is he further aware that the terms of reference which have apparently now been agreed, and the fact that the men have agreed to resume normal working, reflect no credit on the Government whatever, and that the workers—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Order, order!

LORD SHINWELL

I am asking a supplementary question. Am I out of order?

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Yes.

LORD SHINWELL

You had better wait until you hear what I have to say and decide afterwards. I ask my final question: whether the noble Earl is aware, as regards the discussion and controversy about the terms of reference, introducing the matter of the national interest, that the workers of this country, including the electricians, are as much concerned about the national interest as any member of the Tory Cabinet?

EARL ST. ALDWYN

My Lords, I appreciate that the noble Lord has not been very long in your Lordships' House, but it is the normal custom here that when a Question is being answered by a Statement supplementaries are not put until the Statement is made.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, the noble Earl should not object if I have shown some intelligent anticipation. Is that an innovation in this House? If it is, I am glad to have initiated it.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Order, order!

EARL ST. ALDWYN

My Lords, I think it is an innovation when the questions really become a minor speech.

LORD MOLSON

My Lords, may I ask whether the Government are aware that questions such as the noble Lord has been seeking to ask would be out of order in the House of Commons also, where the noble Lord served a very long apprenticeship and might have learnt that lesson?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I would not seek to defend my noble friend—he certainly does not need defence—but my noble friend put a Question down on the Order Paper and the noble Earl, on behalf of the Government, decided to answer it this way. In fact, even though a Statement is anticipated, the Question could still have been answered factually; but the Government decided not to do it that way. But as I understand it my noble friend was perfectly entitled to put those supplementaries to the Government

EARL ST. ALDWYN

My Lords, it is certainly a new interpretation of what is usually done. I am not saying that on occasions such as this we are bound strictly by rules of order, but this is not what is usually done in this House.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that any defects in the procedure of the other place should not be repeated in this more flexible Assembly?