§ LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTERMy Lords, before putting my Question, I should like to declare an interest in the New Zealand produce business. I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the tremendous concern in New Zealand over the proposed import levy and, in particular, the possible effect on their return for their lambs sold in this country.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN)Yes, my Lords. Her Majesty's Government are well aware of the importance which New Zealand attaches to exports of lamb. We do not consider that the financial return to New Zealand will be significantly affected by our proposals for a levy.
§ LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTERMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that rather brief reply. May I ask him three supplementary questions? First, how do Her Majesty's Government justify their proposed action of allowing Irish Republican meat into the United Kingdom without levy, when they are proposing this substantial levy on New Zealand? Secondly, is the noble Marquess aware that so far as beef is concerned it would be impossible for the c.i.f. buyer to operate and transact any forward business? Lastly, would the noble Marquess reconsider New Zealand's request that the imposition of this proposed levy be implemented in stages—for example, one penny 932 on lambs for the first year? This would show some consideration for New Zealand support.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, may I, in reply to those three supplementary questions, begin by assuring the noble Lord that Her Majesty's Government have the fullest sympathy with the Government of New Zealand in this particular matter. We realise that they have difficulties. As I think noble Lords are probably aware, negotiations concerning the levy have begun with the New Zealand Government. They have put forward certain proposals to us, and we have made certain counter-proposals to them. Negotiations are still proceeding, and in those circumstances I hope to be forgiven if I do not reply directly to the noble Lord. I can assure him that the points he has mentioned in his supplementary questions are being taken fully into account.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, would the noble Marquess answer a question which I put to the Government some days ago; namely, were there consultations with the New Zealand Government prior to the announcement of a levy to be imposed upon imports into this country?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, I was not in the House last week when he put his question and I was not aware that he had put it. However, I will take note of what he says and try to ascertain an answer for him.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I appreciate that the noble Marquess has been away. But can he confirm that there were discussions with the New Zealand authorities before the announcement was made of a levy to be imposed upon New Zealand lamb?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANWell, my Lords, I think that is the same question as the noble Lord asked me. I should like notice of it.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, is the noble Marquess aware that it really is not good enough to say that one has sympathy with the New Zealand Government? What one needs is an arrangement which allows the New Zealand Government to send the same total amount of lamb into this country as they 933 did before. May I ask the noble Marquess whether that is the intention of these discussions? Are we proposing to ensure that the same import of lamb from New Zealand is made possible?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANCertainly, my Lords; I think I can give that assurance, that it is our hope that trade with New Zealand—and this includes the import of lamb—will certainly not decrease as a result of these negotiations. But I should prefer not to go into detail on this matter, if I may be excused from doing so.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, does the noble Marquess not consider that the imposition of an import levy on New Zealand or on any other part of the Commonwealth is disgraceful, in the light of their sacrifices for us in two World Wars? Further, seeing that New Zealand has geared her economy to meet our needs, is not this decision a tragedy?
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, I do not wish to come between the noble Lord and his favourite subject. I am intervening on a purely domestic matter; namely, that the Press Gallery have asked that noble Lords should speak slowly and rather loudly, in view of the fact that our microphones are not functioning at present. I apologise to the noble Lord for intervening at this particular moment.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, may I reply to the noble Lord—I think I heard him correctly—to say that his views regarding the great contribution that New Zealand has made to the British Commonwealth will certainly be taken into account. That is why, as I said in my original reply, we are treating this whole question as sympathetically as possible.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, are we to understand that if we speak more loudly we shall obtain more satisfactory answers?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, may I press the noble Marquess a little further? It really is not good enough to speak about a hope. Is he aware that what we want is an undertaking that, whatever arrangement is made, this proposed tax on food will not keep out New Zealand?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, that is certainly the intention, but I should not like to go any further, because as these negotiations are proceeding just at this moment I cannot give the noble Lord any more detail than I have done.
§ LORD BURTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that it is the import of New Zealand lamb in subsidised shipping which is largely responsible for the depressed state of our sheep industry at the present time?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, in view of the difficulty of getting a Question down before Christmas, would the noble Lord give an undertaking that if agreement is reached with the New Zealand authorities, the Government will make a Statement in this House?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, most certainly.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord a tripartite question? First, did I hear him correctly when he said that the New Zealand lamb breeders would receive roughly as much money as they do now? Did I hear him correctly when he said that import duties would be imposed? If the answer to both those questions is "Yes", what is the effect going to be upon the British housewife?
§ LORD SHEPHERDShe will pay more.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I was answering a question from the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, in which I hope I persuaded him that the New Zealand lamb trade would not suffer. I do not think that I went into any details regarding the cost of living and such most important matters to the British housewife. Those are all matters which are naturally very relevant to the negotiations which are proceeding at the moment.