HL Deb 09 December 1970 vol 313 cc943-6

3.5 p.m.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF LISTOWEL) rose to move, That Standing Order No. 147 (Bill as amended in Committee to be deposited at Public Departments) be considered in order to its being dispensed with in respect of the said Bill. The noble Earl said: My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper. Standing Order 147, dealing with Private Business, provides that a draft Bill as amended in Committee should be deposited with the Government Departments concerned not less than three clear days before it is read a third time. Owing to shortage of time, this Bill, which has been carried over from the last Session, cannot receive the Royal Assent before the Christmas Recess unless the prescribed period of three days is shortened. I would therefore ask the House to agree to dispense with the Standing Order so that the Bill can receive the Royal Assent before the Recess. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That Standing Order No. 147 (Bill as amended in Committee to be deposited at Public Departments) be considered in order to its being dispensed with in respect of the said Bill.—(The Earl of Listowel.)

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, may I ask this question of the noble Earl? I take it that there have been full consultations with everyone. He will recall that on a previous occasion some anxiety was caused in the House, and I am always rather nervous when we alter our arrangements in this way in case inadvertently somebody is put at a disadvantage. But I take it that he has consulted everyone. It may be that he has consulted my noble friend the Opposition Chief Whip as well as the Leader of the House on this matter.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, the Government Departments concerned are aware of the contents of the amended Bill, and they have no objection to the shortening of the period of time between the deposit of the Bill and Third Reading. This has occurred before in cases where Private Bills would have had to wait until after the Recess to get the Royal Assent, which would have meant that the local authorities concerned would not have been able to exercise the powers in those Bills until after the Recess.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Earl's intentions are admirable. I am sure that what he has proposed should happen is right. But I am always bothered if we have a sudden departure from our rules without a degree of consultation. This lies very much in the field of the noble Earl's responsibility, and I should be the last person to wish to criticise him, but the fact that the Government Departments are content is not of itself a matter of confidence for ail Members of your Lordships' House. The noble Earl did not answer me directly as to whether the Leader of the House, who also has certain general responsibilities, was consulted on this matter. If not, I should not wish to press him further, but I would ask him to take note that this sort of thing bothers me, and I suspect it also bothers the House.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition for the concern he has shown for Standing Orders governing Private Business, and I can assure him that in future both he and the Leader of the House will be informed as to the matter before the House is asked to dispense with any such Standing Order.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl this question? Why is it necessary for the Bill to have a Third Reading to-day? Could it not be taken next week?

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, as I tried to explain in my opening remarks, if the Third Reading is not agreed to by your Lordships to-day, the Bill will not receive the Royal Assent before the Christmas Recess.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I think this matter is worth probing a little further. I do not understand why, if it receives its Third Reading and passes next week, it should not receive the Royal Assent then. My concern is that there is always a tendency to suit people's administrative convenience or arrangements, and that the House is possibly thereby deprived of a duty it ought to be fulfilling. I am sure nothing arises on this particular matter, but why is it necessary to take Third Reading to-day instead of next week?

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

My Lords, that is the advice I have received. I will make further inquiries, and if I am wrong I will certainly inform the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I am sorry to go on with this question, but there is a point here which affects our duties as one of the two Houses of Parliament. There is always a tendency—and anybody who has been in Government or in a position of authority knows the tendency—to meet administrative convenience. Unless other noble Lords wish to press the matter, I would not seek to hold up this Motion, but it does cause me concern. It is not just a question of informing me: it may well be that the House or the Committee for Procedure ought to consider this matter. I would ask the noble Earl also, perhaps, to consult with the Leader of the House.

THE EARL OF LISTOWEL

I am much obliged to the noble Lord for his comments. I have taken very careful note of them and will take the appropriate action. I trust your Lordships will now accept the Motion standing in my name.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, could I have the advice of the noble Earl, the Leader of the House? There is the Family Income Supplements Bill for which we gather the Government wishes to have Royal Assent before Christmas. It has not had its Third Reading and is not down for Third Reading to-day. Therefore, it will have a Third Reading next week, and still get the Royal Assent. In view of that, I cannot see why this Bill is being treated in this way.

EARL ST. ALDWYN

My Lords, I think there is a little misunderstanding. It is normal to suspend Standing Orders, taking any Bills, both Private and Public Bills, at the end of each term before the House rises. This has always been done. I am not aware that there is any serious departure from that practice.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I think we ought now to let the matter drop. The noble Earl has given notice to the House on this matter. It is very much his territory and it is his responsibility to the House to see that everything is conducted perfectly—as I am sure it always is, under his control. But, none the less, one wants to be very careful.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Bill read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.