HL Deb 15 April 1970 vol 309 cc442-5

2.44 p.m.

LORD TREVELYAN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government in view of the apparent inability of the United Nations and the four Powers to make progress towards working out a settlement between the Arabs and Israel, whether they would favour a new initiative by the United Nations and the four Powers aimed at the negotiation of a settlement by a Conference on the lines of the Geneva Conference of 1954, in which the United Nations, the four Powers, the Arab States directly concerned and Israel would take part.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD CHALFONT)

My Lords, the proposal for a Geneva type conference to deal with the Middle East arose in the debate on the Question by the noble Lord, Lord Napier and Ettrick, on February 26. On that occasion, I said that this was an interesting proposal at which we were prepared to look closely. As my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs said in another place on April 13, the success of this proposal would depend crucially upon its timing. The present time would not be a favourable one for the calling of such a conference, not least because the four Powers are still engaged in working to provide Dr. Jarring with fresh guidance which might enable him to resume his mission.

LORD TREVELYAN

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply, may I ask him whether, in view of the deplorable situation in the Middle East, which is so familiar to us, the Government consider that it is a matter of urgency to establish some method of negotiating a settlement, and that the Governments concerned should concentrate on this?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I agree that the situation is such that we must press forward as quickly as we can with attempts to find some settlement. It is true that the four Powers have not yet reached any agreement on new guidance for Dr. Jarring, but I think it is too soon to conclude that the discussions will not succeed; and we believe that it is right for the moment to continue on those lines.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, the Government must of course always be in a better position than anyone else to decide questions of timing, because they have the information. But in view of the situation in the Middle East, which must worry everybody on all sides of the House, would the noble Lord give an undertaking to the House that he will bear in mind the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord Trevelyan, which seems to me a useful one?

LORD CHALFONT

Indeed, my Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, and with the noble Lord who asked the Question, that this is an interesting proposition. We will bear it in mind. I assure the noble Lord that it is simply a question of timing. We do not think that this is the right moment. If the moment should arise we will certainly bear in mind the noble Lord's suggestion.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, would the noble Lord not feel that categorical, unqualified recommendations, and not "double-talk", which by many is thought hypocritical, should be made to both the Arabs and the Israelis that they should get together around a conference table? Further, can he give any precedent in history where, after an over-whelming military decision, settlement has not come about through talks at the conference table?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I do not think it would be profitable to go into historical analogies in this particular case. I can of course agree with the noble Lord that if there is to be a settlement in this area it must be with the co-operation of the two Powers or sets of Powers immediately concerned. That is what we are trying to give Dr. Jarring some guidelines about, so that he can bring the two sides together and effect some kind of settlement. We think that this is the right course to adopt for the time being.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords,—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Order, order!

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHACKLETON)

My Lords, I wonder whether I may intervene. My noble friend Lady Birk has risen twice now; I think it is her turn.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, with respect to the noble Lord the Leader of the House, I was about to take up the immediate point on which the noble Lord had replied, so that the sequence was proceeding.

BARONESS BIRK

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that as it is at the moment completely unrealistic, though well-intentioned, to talk about the sort of conference outlined in the Question? What the United Nations should be doing, helped by the Four Powers individually, is to try to bring about a conference on the lines of the Rhodes negotiations in 1949, which were eminently successful? Would he also agree that Israel has consistently made it clear that an emissary of her Government would go anywhere to meet a representative of the Arab Governments, and that she is ready at any time to enter into direct negotiations?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am reluctant to go any wider than the noble Lord's original Question about a Geneva-type conference. I think it would be wrong of me to enter into a discussion on the merits of a Rhodes-type solution. But one thing on which I do agree with my noble friend is that all the Governments concerned must be ready to use their best endeavours in this case; and that is one of the reasons why we think that the moment is not right for a Geneva-type conference.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, may I now, with the indulgence of the noble Lord the Leader of the House, first of all thank the noble Lord for the encouragement he gave me in his reply? But I want to make sure, by asking him whether he clearly understood my recommendation, that instead of a continuing recommendation of qualified advice there should be outstandingly clear advice that both sides should get to the conference table.

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, if that was a question I have not entirely caught the drift of it; if it was a recommendation, I will bear it in mind.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, since the continuation of the present hostilities can benefit no one, could not the Government, until such time as suitable conditions for holding a conference arise, take some initiative in promoting secret talks (in which President Nasser has already declared his willingness to participate) between the various parties concerned?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord has put his finger on a paradox there. If, of course, we were engaged in trying to promote something we wanted to keep quiet, this would hardly be the place to announce it.