§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what number of agency nurses are employed by and what is the cost to the National Health Service.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (BARONESS SEROTA)My Lords, the number of agency nurses in post in National Health Service hospitals in England and Wales at March 31, 1969, was 1,814; this represents a whole-time equivalent of 1,801.
§ BARONESS BROOKE OF YSTRADFELLTEMy Lords, may I ask the Minister what is the Government's present policy towards the employment of agency nurses in hospitals which are clearly understaffed in their nursing establishment? Arising out of that, could the noble Baroness tell us whether the Government approve of student nurses' being taken out of study blocks to plug the nursing gap because of understaffing?
§ BARONESS SEROTAMy Lords, in answer to the first question which the noble Baroness put to me, I may say that the Department's policy has always been quite clear: National Health Service hospitals should be staffed by directly employed nurses and midwives on Whitley rates of pay and conditions of service. The second question, I suggest, is not relevant to the subject we have under discussion.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether she could give 758 me a reply to the second part of my Question which concerned the cost to the National Health Service of employing these 1,000-odd nurses?
§ BARONESS SEROTAMy Lords, I apologise. The payments to nurses' agencies totalled approximately £1,050,000 in 1968–69.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend when this expensive policy is going to end? is she aware that these very expensive agency nurses have to be employed because young women are refusing to enter the nursing profession owing to the poor conditions? Can she say when the Government are going to adopt an entirely different attitude towards these girls?
§ BARONESS SEROTAMy Lords, I would remind my noble friend that the amount spent on the salaries of agency nurses represents 0.5 per cent. of the total salary bill of the nursing staff in the National Health Service. With regard to the second point, in our debate yesterday I made a statement to the House about the current situation regarding negotiations on nurses' pay claims.