HL Deb 04 November 1969 vol 305 cc229-32

2.43 p.m.

LORD WILLIS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the persistent and documented reports in Swedish and West German newspapers which allege that certain South American Governments are conducting a systematic campaign of extermination against the primitive jungle Indians in their territories; that hundreds of thousands of Indians have been killed by napalm bombs, arsenical poisoning and other similar means; and if they have any statement to make in respect of these allegations.]

THE MINISTER or STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD CHALFONT)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are aware of these reports, but our information is that they are not true.

LORD WILLIS

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that rather short reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that a documentary film was made by some Swedish producers last October which showed pictures of what was happening among these primitive Indians which substantiate the charges, to some extent at least. I do not know what degree of casualty there may be, but these Swedish producers have gone on record as saying that the death rate is higher than anything which is known in Biafra, and it is a deliberate policy of extermination. I would ask the noble Lord, further, on what basis of evidence he can say these reports are not true?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, my noble friend was good enough to draw my attention earlier to the report of this documentary film. I have read the report with some astonishment, I must confess. It is of course possible that in these vast areas there are individual criminal acts, possibly involving tribes and settlers, and such acts are very hard to prevent. But I am convinced from the investigations we have made that any allegation that there is extermination as a deliberate act of Government policy is entirely without foundation. We have made the most careful investigations into these stories, and perhaps I might offer one possible explanation for them in the case of Brazil. In 1967 there were some very serious malpractices among the Indian tribes of Brazil, but as soon as this came to the attention of the Brazilian Government they took up the matter straight away. brought criminal charges against the people responsible, and have since set up a national foundation for Indians which is designed specially to protect them and look after their health and welfare. Perhaps I had better say nothing about the reports, except that in our view it is extremely unfair to suggest that that Government, which is doing so much to protect its Indians, is responsible for any of the malpractices this documentary team may have seen.

LORD ALPORT

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that Swedish evidence in matters of this sort is notoriously unreliable?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I certainly should not like to comment on a statement like that. I can only say that in this particular case, whatever may be the factual nature of the evidence, to suggest that the Government is responsible is entirely unfair.

LORD WILLIS

My Lords, may I come in again and ask the noble Lord whether, putting aside the responsibility of Governments in this matter, he will more closely investigate these reports? May I further ask him whether he is aware that in a documentary film it is impossible to simulate the kind of suffering that has been indicated in this particular film. I would ask whether he would make efforts to see this film and investigate the evidence more closely.

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, as I have not seen the film I cannot comment on that particular aspect of at. Certainly I will look further into this matter. I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving me the information he has given me. As I say. it is impossible to judge the facts without seeing the film. I would make one other comment: that in the course of investigating these allegations we found that one of the persons making them has never even been to Brazil.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while appreciating what my noble friend has said about the doubts in regard to the reports, would not the matter be settled most satisfactorily if it were referred to the Human Rights Commission of the United Nations, which deals with these subjects?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has already said in another place that our attitude towards action at the United Nations in such a case as this would be determined by the case which was pre sented for it. We do not believe that it is for Her Majesty's Government to take the initiative in a case that is so closely and obviously the concern and responsibility of South American Governments.