HL Deb 15 May 1969 vol 302 cc201-3
LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether negotiations are proceeding for the Government-controlled firm of Short Brothers and Harland to sell military aircraft to the United States Government for use in Vietnam.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (LORD KENNET)

My Lords, Government policy remains unchanged. It is that arms—and this term includes any aircraft for use in a military role—may not be sold by British firms to the armed forces of other countries for use in Vietnam.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I appreciate that Answer, but is it not the case that these aircraft are the military type of Sky van transport aircraft? Is it not the case that negotiations for them have been with the Pentagon in Washington? And is not the war against Vietnam indivisible? How can there be any guarantee whether these aircraft are used for so-called civilian purposes or military purposes; that they will not be assisting the Americans in the Vietnam war?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I understand that the United States Department of Defence has a potential interest in the Skyvan, the kind of aeroplane we are talking about, which exists at the moment only in a civilian version. There is no application before the Government for a licence to sell these aeroplanes abroad, and so it is a matter that will have to be considered if and when such an application materializes.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, again expressing appreciation to my noble friend for that answer, may I ask him this question? Would not these aircraft be very important for the purpose of rehabilitation uses? Further, in view of the more hopeful development of negotiations in Paris, could not any licence for them be held up until a situation exists where rehabilitation can be commenced?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I am sure that the aircraft could be useful in many roles, constructive as well as destructive. I think the question of the application must await the moment if and when it materialises.

LORD TREFGARNE

My Lords, is not the order in question for a licence to build these aircraft in the United States and not to purchase them from stocks built in Belfast? Can the noble Lord say whether the Government's objections—which I have no doubt we all share—to supplying aircraft for the Vietnam conflict extends to prohibition on licensing building operations overseas?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, that is another question, and I know the whole House will agree with me when I say that the situation in the last week or two has made it such that, with any luck, all these considerations will become hypothetical before any deal can reach any conclusive stage.

LORD MILNER OF LEEDS

My Lords, is it not important to distinguish between the military and civil versions of the Skyvan? Would my noble friend agree that Shorts should not be prevented from selling the civil version in the United States because of the policy of the United States Government in Vietnam?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, it seems important to distinguish between the two versions of the plane, one of which exists and the other of which does not exist. The general policy I have already stated in my first Answer.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, is it not the case that these are the military version of the Skyvan transport aircraft?

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

My Lords, is it not about time we approached the question of exports with an attitude of mind that encourages and not discourages Britain's exports?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, we have to bear in mind the two considerations which may on occasion conflict. On the one hand, exports are a good thing because they bring in foreign currency; on the other hand, we are one of the co-Chairmen of the Geneva Conference which gives us a special position with regard to the Vietnam war.

LORD KILBRACKEN

My Lords, if it is undesirable to supply military aircraft to the United States in Vietnam, is it not all the more undesirable to supply them to such a Government as that in Baghdad which is using them indiscriminately against the civilian population in Kurdistan?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I really should be grateful for notice of that question.

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