HL Deb 15 May 1969 vol 302 cc207-10

3.20 p.m.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what action has been taken to make the system of compulsory entry certificates for Commonwealth immigrants workable by (a) providing an adequate staff at the British High Commissions and (b) completing arrangements with Commonwealth Governments for expeditious communications with applicants at distant places.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD CHALFONT)

My Lords, I would remind my noble friend that entry certificates have been issued by British High Commissions in Commonwealth countries since 1962, when the first Commonwealth Immigrants Act was passed. The new requirement that entry certificates shall be compulsory for Commonwealth citizens coming to this country for settlement is an extension of these arrangements, and additional entry certificate officers will shortly be sent to High Commission Offices where the work is likely to be heaviest. Commonwealth Governments have not been asked to make special arrangements for communication with distant places in their countries. This is because experience over the past seven years has not indicated any special need for them.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask him these supplementary questions? First, is he aware that during the Third Reading debate on this matter it was clearly indicated that there was a very inadequate staff for dealing with the larger number of applications which will be made, but that many of us were reassured by the answer of the Minister, who indicated that the staff would be doubled? Could he now say to what extent the staff is to be doubled? In regard to the second part of my Question, is it not the case that in India and Pakistan, and in the small islands in the Caribbean, a large number of applicants will live at distant places, with no reasonable opportunity to present their cases at the High Commission offices? Is it not therefore desirable that there should be some consultation with Commonwealth Governments so that these new arrangements can be facilitated?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, on the subject of the inadequate number of staff, I think I can best indicate the extent to which we are attempting to deal with this by saying that under the new requirements the work-load is approximately doubled and the staff is being approximately trebled; so this means that we are taking good care to see that the number of extra entry certificate officers is sufficient to meet the need. On the question of people living in distant places in the Caribbean and elsewhere, I can only say that in the past we have not discovered that this has been an insuperable difficulty. Where people live in distant places they usually have to come to the principal cities in any case to get their passports; and in order to get their entry certificates the same thing naturally applies. I can only repeat what I said in my original Answer: that our experience since 1962 has indicated that there is no need for any additional resource of this kind to be provided.

LORD WADE

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what consultations have taken place with voluntary bodies in this country with regard to the provision of advice, particularly to dependants, in the countries of origin; and whether any grant will be made to assist in this quite useful service?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think that all this has indeed been made clear in your Lordships' House by my noble friend. The answer is that there has been full consultation with the voluntary bodies, that there will be such a grant, and that the amount of it is now being considered.

LORD ROYLE

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he will look again at the second part of the Question set down by my noble friend Lord Brockway, with regard to distant places? Is it not a fact that in the Caribbean there are many islands where, of course, there is no High Commissioner's office, and where the transport facilities are not very easy? May I ask him whether he would have another look at this matter to see if further help can be given in this regard?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I will certainly undertake to have another look at it. I cannot, however, undertake that the answer will be very much different. I am advised that the work-load in the Caribbean does not make the provision of this kind of thing necessary. The scheme has now been working since 1962—for seven years—and there has been no indication that this kind of thing is necessary. The extra work-load brought about by the new requirement falls largely in India and Pakistan, and not in the Caribbean at all.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is a general practice in the Civil Service that when the work is doubled the staff is trebled?

LORD CHALFONT

If the number of staff was inadequate before, yes.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he will ask his office to reconsider this whole matter? Is he aware that many Members of this House, not only from this side, who have some knowledge of this question, know that before the new arrangements were made applicants had sometimes to wait for six days in front of iron gates before their applications were considered; and that at very distant places, more in Pakistan than in India—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Order!

LORD BROCKWAY

This is a terribly serious question.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Speech!

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHACKLETON)

My Lords, if I may interrupt the noble Lord, I am bound to say that he made these very considerable and forceful points in a fairly long speech on the Third Reading, and I had the impression that my noble friend Lord Stonham answered them pretty fully. I would only suggest that if he would ask a rather short, sharp question, then another Minister will have a go.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I will try to do so. May I ask the Minister whether his Department will look very seriously at this issue, from the point of view both of the personnel able to deal with applicants and of the appalling difficulty of people in distant villages being able to make their applications when they are, very often, 500 miles away?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, my noble friend 'will know, of course, that it is the Home Department that is responsible for the administration of this Commonwealth Immigrants Act. My noble friend made all these points before, and I thought they had all been fully and adequately answered by my noble friend. But, of course, I will take note, and will undertake that what my noble friend has said is brought to the attention of my right honourable friend.