§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what programme has now been made for the building of the rail link between London and Heathrow Airport.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (LORD HUGHES)My Lords, no programme has yet been settled for the building of a rail link between London and Heathrow Airport. Following, a recommendation of the Transport Co-ordinating Council for London in 1967, detailed plans are being worked out by British Rail in conjunction with other interested bodies for the construction both of the line itself, most of which is along existing track, and of the terminals at either end, to establish accurately the economics of the project. Agreement has yet to be reached between the parties about the finances of the link and certain related matters, and these are being looked into by my right honourable friends the President of the Board of Trade and the Minister of Transport.
§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply may I ask whether he can advise us how soon a decision is expected, or how soon the discussions will come to fruition? Could the noble Lord advise us, also, whether in view of the increasing road congestion to London Airport, the 1358 Government are satisfied that the present coach service will continue to be able to give an adequate service.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I will take the second part first. This issue arises because of the doubts about the continued adequacy of the coach service. As to when a decision can be reached, there are, as I have said, a number of interests involved—British Railways, the British Airports Authority and the airlines—and it is not surprising that it is rather difficult to get them all to agree on the same solution. But I can assure noble Lords that the Government are well aware of the urgency of the matter, and we have brought pressure to bear on the parties to put forward an agreed scheme as quickly as they can.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, could my noble friend say whether any further progress has been made in connection with connecting the West London terminal at Gloucester Road with the Underground there? This proposal has been put forward over a long period of time, and it has always been turned down on the ground of expense. But in view of the fact that the Underground runs, as it were, beneath the terminal at Gloucester Road, it would seem that there is an outstanding case for a link-up between the terminal and the Underground system.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I indicated the difficulty in getting agreement. My noble friend puts his finger on one of those difficulties. What B.E.A. and B.O.A.C. would wish in relation to Gloucester Road is not necessarily the same as other people wish in connection with Victoria.
THE LORD BISHOP OF CHESTERMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell us whether consideration has been given to having an overhead railway, whereby passengers could embark in the middle of London and be delivered, I understand, to the door of the aircraft, without the necessity of having to go through various stations on the way?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I can appreciate that the right reverend Prelate is more interested in things above ground than below ground. My advisers have not carried me that distance, I am afraid.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, was one of the factors for this examination the arrival, as I believe, of the large new airliners at Heathrow next year? Could the noble Lord tell us whether Heathrow without a rail link will have the capacity to deal with the arrival of these large new planes, and what the prospect is of meeting the incidence of these large numbers of passengers all arriving at one time?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, that question goes a little beyond the Question that was put down, but I understand that the answer to the first part, about the capacity of Heathrow, is, Yes. This, however, is merely another of the factors, added to the continual natural growth of air services, which are making the question of access from the airport to London a matter of ever-increasing urgency.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, would the Minister not agree that the longer the decision is delayed, the more expensive will any solution be?
§ LORD HUGHESUndoubtedly, it will, my Lords. That is why the Government are pressing the urgency. But we have more than one indication that when Governments attempt to force solutions on unwilling people it does not add to speed.
§ LORD ALLERTONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, if and when agreement is reached as to the massive new proposal for this rail link, any estimate has been made as to the length of time the work will actually take?
§ LORD HUGHESYes, my Lords. It is estimated that it will take five years to complete the link.
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, if time does not seem to be the important factor would it not be better, in the long run, to go by sea?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I think that is a suitable note on which we may end this. I would only say that if the premise put forward was right, the conclusion would be equally right. However, I doubt if the premise is a correct one.