BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (Hansard, 20 March 1969)

§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHACKLETON)
My Lords, in moving the first Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper, I should like to say how grateful I am to the noble Lord, Lord Ferrier, who has kindly indicated his agreement to the proposal that we should take the Motion on the subject of a Return of Attendances before the noble Lord's own Motion on the Second Report of the Select Committee on Broadcasting the Proceedings of the House. I hope that the Motion I am intending to take will be disposed of fairly quickly. I beg to move.

§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE
My Lords, may I raise one question on this Motion? Before the Order Paper contained this very important Motion which the Leader of the House is going shortly to move—and I am sure it is one which your Lordships will agree must be taken as first business—the Order Paper had Lord Ferrier's Motion as the second item, by Resolution passed by the House a few days ago. In front of it is now the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill. To that Bill there are approximately five pages of Amendments. There may be some Divisions, and my appeal to the Leader of the House is to consider whether that Bill could not be postponed to some later date. It has a much narrower interest in your Lordships' House than has Lord Ferrier's Motion, which has a wide interest affecting all your Lordships.
I am informed by the usual channels on our side of the House that the Committee stage for the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill may take one and three-quarter hours, which means that the de- 1020 bate on Lord Ferrier's Motion would start at an inordinately late hour for a subject which is of such wide interest. Would not the Government consider postponing the Committee stage of this Bill until some later date? It is not for me to say when it could be done; that it is for the two Front Benches to combine to do. Let me only repeat that I always find things difficult when the two Front Benches agree.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, the noble Lord knows the difficulties. When any item of business goes on the Order Paper we never know how long it is going to take. I gather that his remarks are directed to the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill rather than to my Motion, which I hope will be pretty brief.

§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE
Certainly.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
I put my Motion on deliberately to-day because, although it is a small matter, Thursday, apart from being the first convenient date, is a day when a large number of noble Lords are present, and it seemed appropriate. I hope that my Motion will not take very much time. Of course, if we found that there was a lengthy debate on it we should have to think about the question. But I am in some difficulty over the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill. It has been on the Order Paper for quite a long while. We chose this day, and indeed we advanced Lord Ferrier's Motion before some other business. The noble Lord, Lord Ferrier, knows that we tried hard to suit him and to get his Motion on early, and we picked a Government day for it, which I think is appropriate.
From the Government's point of view, we should be perfectly willing to consider postponing the Committee stage of the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill, but the only day that would be convenient would be Monday. We have given some indication through the usual channels that there is always the possibility of sitting on a Monday, because we are getting up early for the Easter Recess. On the other hand, I am not sure whether it would now be convenient for the House if we were to postpone the Bill from to-day. My own view (this is in no way a reflection on the importance of Lord Ferrier's Motion) is that we ought to see 1021 what progress we can make on the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill. On the whole, the House has had a rather more respectable earlier part of the year than we had last year, though it is true that we sat until half-past twelve on Tuesday night. I hope, therefore, that the noble Lord, Lord Balfour of Inchrye, will just take it that we have heard what he has said, and that my noble friend Lord Beswick will consult through the usual channels if we find ourselves getting seriously delayed.

§ VISCOUNT DILHORNE
My Lords, may I make a suggestion to the noble Lord the Leader of the House? He said that the noble Lord, Lord Ferrier, had been very accommodating about his Motion to-day. Would it not be possible, even at this stage, to arrange that Lord Ferrier's Motion should come before the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill to-day, and then see how we get on? That is an alternative to postponing the Committee stage of the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill. I should have thought there was a strong case for giving my noble friend's Motion priority, as he has been so accommodating, and then we could see how things go. So far as sitting on Monday is concerned, I think it would be very inconvenient for a great many of your Lordships to have to attend at such very short notice.

§ LORD FERRIER
My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord the Leader of the House for what he has said and for the facilities he has given for my Motion to be put down at all. So far as the business this afternoon is concerned, I regard the matter of your Lordships' attendances as of greater importance and urgency to your Lordships than my Motion. But when I agreed to that, I had not realised that some of those who had put their names down to speak for me, and who are interested in the Bill, were not so happy that it might come on very late in the Sitting to-day.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, I am afraid that the noble and learned Viscount's proposal is not really practicable. We cannot change the order of business without a Motion on the Order Paper. Flexible as the procedure of this House is, there are limits to flexibility, and the vehicle drivers and motor users would be rather disturbed by an altera- 1022 tion in business as it affects them. I appreciate that the noble Lord, Lord Ferrier has acknowledged that the Government have been accommodating. I am sure my noble friend will consider the suggestion that we should adjourn the Vehicle and Driving Licences Bill, but my view is that we ought to see how we can get on, and I hope that we shall make rapid progress with it. It is not unreasonable that we should stay as late as necessary to do justice to the important Motion of the noble Lord, Lord Ferrier. Perhaps I may point out that when we came to wind up the debate on Tuesday evening, although it was midnight fifty noble Lords were present, which shows what can be done when there is interest.