HL Deb 19 March 1969 vol 300 cc873-5
LORD CHORLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to set up better machinery for the review of academic salaries in the universities.]

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, my honourable friend the Minister of State for Education and Science has, at their request, had exploratory discussions, without commitment by any body, about machinery for settling university academic salaries with the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals and with the Association of University Teachers. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science cannot anticipate the outcome of these discussions, which will take some time to complete.

LORD CHORLEY

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask her these supplementary questions? Is she aware of the urgent need to get this long-standing problem tackled? Is she aware that the recent illogical and [...]nsatisfactory Report of the Prices and Incomes Board has nearly caused a strike among university staffs? Further, is she aware of the recent decision of the Council of the University Teachers' Association that they would not accept a further remit to the Board; and does that not make it very clear how urgent it is to get on with efforts to deal with this problem?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that my right honourable friend is well aware of the urgency of this matter. I am sure the noble Lord will also appreciate that one of the major obstacles to establishing negotiating machinery has been the difficulty, in the absence of any body which represents the interests of the universities as employers, of forming an employers' side to the negotiations. The Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals have been unwilling to accept this role because they see themselves as a part of the academic community and as not having a mandate to commit the governing bodies of the individual universities. This and other points have necessitated prolonged discussions. But I will convey the views of the noble Lord to my right honourable friend.

LORD BEAUMONT OF WHITLEY

My Lords, is it not absurd that where a very large number of people are employed no one can decide who employs them?

LORD BOWDEN

My Lords, is it not even more absurd that this particular point has been under discussion, to my certain knowledge, for 15 years, with apparently the same sense of urgency as is prevailing at the moment, and that no progress whatsoever has been made? Can the Government undertake to do something in the next year or so much more dramatic than they have succeeded in doing in the last 15 or 20 years?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I appreciate the feelings with which noble Lords have put their questions, but I think they will agree that the Government are not the only party to these discussions. If the two negotiating bodies cannot come together even on the machinery through which they will negotiate salaries, it is a little hard to put all blame on the Government.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, may I thank the Government for the many benefits—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: No!

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether she will thank the Government for the many benefits and improvements in status which have flowed to university teaching staffs since this Government came into office? May I further ask her—and I do so as the much-worried treasurer of a university —whether, if additional salaries are authorised as a result of this new machinery, the University Grants Committee will give supplementary grants to the universities to cover the expenditure involved?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I thank my noble friend particularly for his expression of gratitude to the Government. This is always very welcome, from whatever source it comes. I will convey to my right honourable friend the other point made by the noble Lord. Naturally, since this matter is very exploratory, the point about additional moneys from the University Grants Committee cannot have a direct reply.

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