HL Deb 11 March 1969 vol 300 cc329-32

2.42 p.m.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to deal with the ever-increasing volume of litter of all sorts deposited not only near beauty spots in the countryside but along road sides and railway lines and in and around urban areas in all parts of the country.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (LORD KENNET)

My Lords, the Civic Amenities Act 1967 requires local authorities to provide places where residents may deposit refuse free of charge, lays down severe penalties for unauthorised dumping, and gives authorities wide powers to remove abandoned rubbish. These provisions are aimed primarily at the deliberate dumping of large items of rubbish including old motor vehicles. Against the casual dropper of litter the Litter Act 1958 also provides penal sanctions. Within this legislative framework measures to deal with litter must be primarily for local action. The Government keep in close touch with the Keep Britain Tidy Group, who are concerned with educating and influencing the public and with assisting local authorities in this field, and makes an annual grant to them.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask him whether he thinks that, apart from having these powers, local authorities have both the resources and also the will in fact to implement them? Because all of us know that the amount of filth and rubbish of all kinds lying around in this country is increasing, in spite of this legislation.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I have no reason to assume a lack of willingness on the part of the local authorities to implement the powers. If the noble Lord has, perhaps he will let me know of it. As to finance, it is a fact that at the moment the Government have invited local authorities to cut back on the rate of increase in their spending, and it may be that when we are out of the present period of financial stringency the local authorities will be able to do more.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, so that the noble Lord can see that I am not exaggerating, may I ask him to call for a report from his Department of what can be seen from the main railway line between Preston and Crewe? It will astonish him.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, if the House will bear with us, may I ask the noble Lord to let me have a report direct?

THE LORD BISHOP OF NORWICH

My Lords, in view of the fact that the convictions under the Litter Act average approximately 2,700 per year, do the Government intend to introduce or to strengthen other positive schemes to reduce the indiscriminate dumping of refuse?

LORD KENNET

Not at the moment, my Lords, because the 1967 Act is still so new that we are not yet satisfied that we know enough about how it will work. For the moment the figure of 3,000 prosecutions and the relevant number of convictions seem to the Government to be quite a lot, and perhaps it is not appropriate to have more.

THE LORD BISHOP OF NORWICH

My Lords, do the Government regard this Act as being adequate or effective, and cannot some other positive schemes be considered for reducing the indiscriminate dumping of litter?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, of course such schemes can be considered, and if the right reverend Prelate has any up his sleeve I should be grateful if he would send them to me. We must wait and see how the 1967 Act affects the situation.

THE LORD BISHOP OF NORWICH

My Lords, may I ask whether the Government would considered increasing education on this matter in the schools and also other propaganda—for instance, by television and radio?

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, will Her Majesty's Government make some effort to arrange the sharing of the financial burden between the urban authorities, whose inhabitants leave most of the litter, and the country authorities who have the unenviable and expensive task of clearing it up?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I will put to my right honourable friend the suggestion of the right reverend Prelate about education. It is a financial question and these are difficult days. The noble Lord, Lord Hawke, made a most interesting suggestion about sharing the burden. I should hate to be responsible for working out the details of the allocation as between urban and rustic authorities. I will consider the matter further and will put it to my right honourable friend.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, would the noble Lord accept that one of the problems in this matter is that many members of the general public are unaware of the location of the litter disposal centres which, under the Civic Amenities Act, the local authorities are now under compulsion to provide? Would he consider drawing the attention of local authorities to the need for publicising the location of the centres, which was a point suggested, and sympathetically received by the noble Baroness, Lady Serota, quite recently on a short debate on this matter on an Unstarred Question in this House?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, their attention has been drawn to it. My right honourable friend has emphasised to the authorities that adequate and continued publicity as to their arrangements in this matter is essential.

LORD HAWKE

My Lords, if the noble Lord's arithmetic is not equal to making the arrangements for sharing this burden, some of us on this side of the House would be only too willing to volunteer.

LORD MERRIVALE

My Lords, I should like to ask two questions about indiscriminate dumping of litter in our towns and cities. In view of the increasing powers being given to traffic wardens under the recent Transport Act, and in view of their increasing numbers, would the noble Lord consider empowering them to make on-the-spot penalties? Would the noble Lord cast his mind back to December 14, 1966, when he said that this form of penalty had been considered for some time, and could he say whether Her Majesty's Government have reached any conclusion in regard to on-the-spot penalties to deal with the problem?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, if I understood the noble Lord aright, he is envisaging that traffic wardens should take the opportunity of enforcing the Litter Act. That is an interesting suggestion, which I will bring to the attention of my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport.