§ 4.8 p.m.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, with permission, I should like to repeat a Statement which is being made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place on the subject of the appointment of a Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration in Northern Ireland.
The Statement is as follows:
"Hon. Members will recall that, following the disturbances in Londonderry last October, I had discussions with the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland in London on November 4. When I reported on this meeting to the House the following day, I mentioned that one of the main subjects covered in the talks was the appointment of a Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration in Northern Ireland.
"On November 22 the Northern Ireland Government announced their intention to make such an appointment, and in The Queen's Speech opening the Northern Ireland Parliament on December 17, it was stated that legislation for this purpose would be introduced in the New Year.
"Subsequently the Northern Ireland Government raised with Her Majesty's Government the idea that the first holder of the office of Northern Ireland Parliamentary Commissioner should be Sir Edmund Compton, who would undertake this work in addition to holding the office of Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration for the United Kingdom.
"Her Majesty's Government took the view that provided this did not prevent Sir Edmund from fully discharging the duties which this House has laid upon him, such an appointment would give great confidence both in Northern Ireland and here. Accordingly, after soundings through the usual channels, and after members of our Select Committee on the Parliamentary Commissioner had been informally 34 advised, I informed the Northern Ireland Government that there was no objection from the side of the United Kingdom Government to this appointment.
"Accordingly, the Northern Ireland Prime Minister has to-day informed the new Parliament at Stormont that, subject to the passage into law of a Bill which is to be introduced next week, the Northern Ireland Government will advise the Governor to appoint Sir Edmund Compton as the first holder to the office of Parliamentary Commissiner for Northern Ireland. The House will realise that, in this capacity, he would act on complaints referred to him by members of the Northern Ireland Parliament in relation to actions of the Northern Ireland departments. He would not investigate such actions on behalf of Members of this House.
"I understand that Sir Edmund Compton would be willing to accept the Northern Ireland appointment subject to the terms of the Bill as passed into law and to appropriate provision of staff and other administrative arrangements by the Northern Ireland Government. His intention would be so to organise the work as to ensure that he can continue the full discharge of his duties on behalf of Members of this House under the United Kingdom Act."
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am sure your Lordships are grateful to the noble Lord the Leader of the House for repeating this Statement. I have only one question that I wish to ask. Before asking the question, however, I should like to state my belief that Sir Edmund Compton will be admirably qualified to discharge the extra responsibilities which he is being asked to take on, and also to remind your Lordships that it was the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland (for whom, I think, without departing from the bounds of neutrality, it would be right for me to say there is considerable admiration on all sides of your Lordships' House) who originally asked for this appointment to be made. That brings me to my question. Can the noble Lord tell us what extra staff, in the view of the two Governments, will be required for the Parliamentary Commissioner, how they will be provided, and who will pay for them?
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, I, too, should like to welcome the Statement. We all have a great deal of confidence in Sir Edmund Compton, but I should like to ask the Minister whether it might not give greater confidence to Northern Ireland if there were also a Deputy Parliamentary Commissioner resident in Northern Ireland. May I also ask the noble Lord what happens if a Northern Ireland Member of Parliament refuses to send on a complaint to the Parliamentary Commissioner? In view of the political atmosphere in Northern Ireland at the present time, this could be a very important point. Thirdly, may I ask the noble Lord whether anything is likely to be done about complaints arising in relation to local government matters, because it is in the maladministration of local government that so many complaints arise?
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I echo the remarks of the noble Earl, Lord Jellicoe, in the first part of his observations. First of all, as regards staffing and the appointment of staff, this must be a matter for the Northern Ireland Government, and I am not sure that it would be right for me to comment on it. The person who will need to satisfy himself that it is satisfactory is Sir Edmund Compton. As I pointed out, his acceptance is conditional on his being satisfied with the staffing arrangements. I think we must leave it to him to see whether it is necessary for a deputy to be appointed. Very much the essence of the appointment is the Parliamentary Commissioner himself, and he ultimately will presumably take responsibility for views that he may form.
On the question of what happens if a Northern Ireland Member of Parliament refuses to send on a complaint, the position is exactly the same as it is in this country. As I understand it, a United Kingdom Member of Parliament has discretion as to what he sends to the Parliamentary Commissioner. When we debated this subject in your Lordships' House, I think most of us felt that this was a sensible sort of sieve. Indeed, when a Member of Parliament is dissatisfied with answers that he may get from a Department, he may decide to call in aid the Parliamentary Commissioner: according to his judgment he can go to him first. I am speaking, I may say, from 36 the analogy of the United Kingdom, but I do not know—
§ LORD BYERSIt is quite remarkable.
§ LORD SHACKLETONI do not know what will be in the legislation. But there are quite a number of Members of Parliament in the Northern Ireland Government; and, if my recollection is right, one is not bound in the United Kingdom to confine oneself to one's own Member of Parliament. It is possible to go to other Members of Parliament, and, if I understand it aright, there is quite a variety among the kinds of Members of Parliament in the Northern Ireland Parliament. Perhaps I should not be drawn any further, because this is a matter for them.
I fear that I cannot comment on the position with regard to local government. I am well aware, as clearly are other noble Lords, of the point which the noble Lord, Lord Byers, has in mind. I can only say that this will be a matter for the Northern Ireland Government; and in the light of the remarks of the noble Earl, Lord Jellicoe, we may all hope that happy solutions will emerge.
LORD REAMy Lords, for the sake of the record, may I ask whether it is not true that when the noble Lord uses the words "Members of Parliament" he really means "Member of the House of Commons"?—because in this country it is rather less than half the Members of Parliament who are entitled to use this privilege.
§ LORD SHACKLETONI am not sure whether the noble Lord is making a House of Lords' point. If so, he is entirely welcome to it.