HL Deb 10 June 1969 vol 302 cc527-9

2.46 p.m.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government the number of women members ap- pointed to the Working Party set up by the National Schools Council to consider the teaching of gifted children in primary schools.]

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government understand from the Schools Council for the Curriculum and Examinations, which is an independent body, that there are at present no women members of the Working Party. The Working Party is, however, considering co-opting additional members, and some of these may be women.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. May I ask whether consideration may be given to adding some women members to this Working Party? And will my noble friend ask her right honourable friend the Secretary of State to use his influence to ensure that when any other Working Party is set up it shall include representatives of the women in the service of education who have given such outstanding service—particularly, if I may say so, in the field of primary education.

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that supplementary question. Were I permitted to do so by Standing Orders (I am not quite clear whether I am permitted to do so) I would have thanked him for the original Question. I heartily endorse all he has said about the contribution of women teachers at all levels, and women generally in the cause of education. I will certainly convey his views to my right honourable friend. But the Working Party is of course an independent body, so the views of the Minister must be conveyed to it, and the Working Party, of course, has to come to the ultimate decision.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, could my noble friend answer this simple question? In view of the fact that 75 or 80 per cent. of the teachers in this country are women, how is it that when recommendations are called for, the Civil Service forgets there are two sexes in this country?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I naturally sympathise very much with the point put by my noble friend although I hasten to say that it is not entirely the responsibility of the Civil Service. This is in fact a Working Party set up by the Schools Council, but the Working Party would have called for a membership interested in the teaching of gifted children. The personnel of the Working Party are good, and I suppose they would try to view this matter objectively. They want the right people—I will not say "broken down" by sex—but not necessarily by sex.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend another question? Would she think that perhaps it is due to the fact that they think women can teach only stupid children?

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, how does a Working Party differ from a Committee?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I find myself at a loss to answer either of the last two questions. This Working Party is in fact a committee. If the noble Lord wishes me to get a definition of the various classifications I will try to do that for him: I feel that it would be for my own education as well.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend to accept that one appreciates that the persons appointed constitute a very distinguished list of men experienced in the service of education, but undoubtedly it would have been a good thing if they could have been advised by one or two women in their presence?

BARONESS PHILLIPS

My Lords, I entirely agree. I cannot think of any Working Party, committee, council or other organisation which would not benefit by having women as part of its personnel.