§ 5.27 p.m.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, with permission I would repeat a Statement which my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Social Services has made in another place on the White Paper on Social Insurance Benefits. The statement is as follows:—
"I have to-day laid before Parliament a White Paper setting out the Government's proposals for social insurance benefits in the new scheme of earnings-related social security.
"The Government have already, in 1966, introduced a substantial measure of earnings relationship into the provision for short-term benefits for the early months of sickness, unemployment and widowhood.
1130 "The changes now proposed for short-term benefits are thus limited to those required to adapt them to the new system of earnings-related contributions and long-term benefits. Stamped cards and flat-rate contributions will be abolished for all employees covered by P.A.Y.E. and the new contributions for them will be collected through the P.A.Y.E. system. The proposals with the financial implications, are set out in detail in the White Paper.
"The White Paper also describes the new deal for the long-term sick. Short-term sickness benefit under the new scheme will be payable for up to six months. Those who are still sick at the end of this period will be able to receive a new earnings related long-term sickness benefit—to be called invalidity pension. This benefit will replace the present flat-rate sickness benefit for those who are sick for more than six months. For those who are 1131 so severely handicapped that they need a great deal of help from other people there will also be available a new attendance allowance announced' in the earlier White Paper.
"As regards the industrial injuries scheme, the Government are still in consultation with both sides of industry on the consequential changes necessary in industrial injury benefit and industrial widows' pensions; no change is proposed in industrial disablement benefit. Subject to this, the proposals in today's White Paper, with those already announced in the earlier White Paper, National Superannuation and Social Insurance, complete the Government's plans for reconstructing the present national insurance scheme. The Government intend to introduce the necessary legislation in the next Session of Parliament."
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Baroness for repeating this Statement. May I ask one or two questions about it? First, may I take it that the White Paper, as well as stating the benefits, will on this occasion also state the contributions and the cost involved? That seems to be specifically stated in regard to short-term benefits but not in regard to the others. The invalidity pension is something for which the Government have been pressed for a long time and we shall be very glad to see that. May I take it that industrial injuries are mentioned in the Statement because consultations are still going on? May I ask the noble Baroness whether this is the only matter on which consultations are still continuing? In particular, may I ask her whether consultations on the question of an occupational pension scheme and contracting out have yet been completed? I was under the impression that they were still going on, and I hope that this is so. Perhaps the noble Baroness can answer those points.
§ LORD WADEMy Lords, I should like to join in thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Phillips, for repeating the Statement. We shall of course have to study the White Paper. I welcome the proposal to abolish the stamping of cards; this was advocated by a Liberal Committee some years ago. May I ask a question about the handicapped? What 1132 form of benefit is proposed for them, apart from the attendance allowance? I have in mind those cases where the disability is so great that a person has not been able to earn, and therefore there are no earnings to which any payment could be related. Is any form of benefit intended for such cases?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I thank the two noble Lords who have put questions. I should prefer to give replies in writing to the factual questions, particularly those relating to consultations on the matters not mentioned specifically in the White Paper. As noble Lords will appreciate, we shall need to study this Paper very carefully. The actual proposals for legislation will come of course in the next Session, but I will see that both noble Lords receive replies to the questions which they have put this afternoon. In this White Paper we are considering particularly short-term benefits. The long-term benefits, to which I think the question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Wade, relates, were discussed in the earlier White Paper. But I will see that both the noble Lords who put questions receive replies.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I think it regrettable that the noble Baroness is not in a position to answer the question about occupational pensions. This matter has been canvassed a good deal in the Press, and I think that the House would have liked to know the answer to that question. May I ask a question arising out of a remark by the noble Lord, Lord Wade? He said, if I understood him right, that the stamping of cards was to be completely abolished. But is that so? I understood the noble Baroness to say that it was being abolished for employees. Does this not mean that the stamping of cards will continue for the self-employed and the non-employed? If that is so does it mean that the present system, what might be called the "Newcastle" system, will have to be maintained and that the whole operation cannot be completely computerised? I have been under the impression that the whole thing was to be computerised. Is that not so?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, will not press me on this matter. After all, it deals with a rather narrower issue than the very much wider 1133 issues in the White Paper. I can tell the noble Lord that consultations are still going on in connection with the second point that he raised, about occupational pensions. Regarding the abolition of the cards, I think that I must rest on the Statement. Stamped cards for flat-rate contributions will be abolished for all employees covered by P.A.Y.E. I think this may be interpreted as the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, has interpreted it; that it does not apply to the self-employed.