HL Deb 03 July 1969 vol 303 cc660-1
THE EARL OF ALBEMARLE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether in their view the time has not come to set up a working party to formulate, before stern need arises, a better National Service scheme than that which, in 1957, was abandoned because it provided too short a period of training and lacked a corps of instructors appropriate to the requirements of this mechanical and scientific age.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE, R.A.F. (LORD WINTERBOTTOM)

My Lords, in the view of the Government, the reintroduction of National Service in any form would give rise to problems which rule it out as a method of meeting either our strategic commitments or our manpower requirements. In this the position is no different from that obtaining in 1957, when the Government's predecessors were led to abandon it.

THE EARL OF ALBEMARLE

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask whether he will not agree that there is an opportunity now, as things are in the world, calmly to redress the mistakes of the 1957 Act which caused dissatisfaction, as we know, and also concerned something which was erected under the stress of war? Is there not now a real opportunity to get the matter in the pigeonhole, as one might say, so that it may be taken out of the pigeon-hole when need arises?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, this is one aspect of defence on which both the major Parties are in agreement. One of the facts of life is that the cost of training a modern soldier, airman or sailor is so expensive that we simply cannot afford to tie up our limited skilled manpower in training men from whom we can get only a limited amount of service. We are all hopeful that the new pay structure which is about to be introduced will produce a sufficient flow of volunteers to staff and man our military forces to the necessary degree.

VISCOUNT MONCKTON OF BRENCHLEY

My Lords, in the event of the failure of recruiting, does that mean that there is still no plan of any sort for a selective form of National Service?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, as the noble Viscount knows perhaps better than most, there are quite substantial forces in this country at the moment; and when the previous Administration reached this decision alternative plans must of course have been considered. But the hard fact is that we are hopeful that the new pay structure will enable us to bring in sufficient volunteers to man our all-Regular Armed Forces.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while welcoming my noble friend's very definite statement against the reintroduction of any compulsory National Service, may I ask whether he is aware that the younger generation who would form these recruits are now increasingly rejecting the method of war altogether and that this is illustrated by the 60,000 who in America have refused to serve in Vietnam? If the Government—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Speech!

LORD BROCKWAY

Should not the Government adjust their defence policies to meet the new climate of opinion among the new generation in this country?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I see no evidence that the younger generation is less prepared to defend the liberties of this country than previously.

LORD SOMERS

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that there is another side, apart from warfare, to national training, and that is the training of character of the young and the learning of discipline? Would he not also agree, in view of what he said about the expense, that that expense would be no greater than the expense of supporting a number of young vandals who destroy trains, and so on.

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, that is quite another question.