HL Deb 18 February 1969 vol 299 cc689-91
EARLS FERRERS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will reintroduce the practice, which existed previously and which has now been discontinued, of stamping vehicle registration books with the expiry date of the licence at the time when the road fund licence is issued.]

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, the stamping of licence expiry dates in registration books served no particularly useful purpose, and in certain circumstances was misleading. It also took up unnecessary time in the hard-pressed licensing authority offices. After consultation with interested organisations the process was discontinued in May, 1967. We do not intend to reintroduce it.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his reply, but I am also a little disappointed by it. I am grateful to him for telling us that this is done in the interests of economy, but is he aware that to some noble Lords it will seem the most absurd economy that the mind could possibly conjure up? Also, is he aware that owners are encouraged to run their vehicles unlicensed at the moment, because the only way of determining whether or not their vehicle is licensed is to go out and inspect the disc displayed on its windscreen? But as vehicles are designed to move very frequently this can be either impossible or inconvenient, and probably both.

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I do not quite see the point the noble Earl is making. I think the true licensing position is recorded in the taxation office, so the authorities know when the tax runs out. Therefore it can easily be determined from the records whether or not a licence has been issued. If an individual came back and wanted a duplicate, the information for that, and for the issue of a new registration book if the original one is lost, is all in the office.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that it may be in the taxation officer's office, but it is not in the office of the owner of the vehicle?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, we do not all have offices. Those of us who have one motor car administer that from our own writing desk. If a man is running a major fleet of lorries he will have his own proper recording system.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, may I ask one further question? Is the noble Lord aware that the practice now is to stamp the log book with a stamp which says, "No further stamp is required"? If the Government are going so to stamp log books, could they not stamp them with a stamp saying when the next stamp is going to be required?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I am getting into deep waters. All I can say is that the log book is probably stamped once with the form of stamp mentioned by the noble Earl, and that is a once-and-for-all operation. A splendid calculation has been made on this subject. There are 20 million licences, and if we had an operation of stamping them annually with the actual dates of the operation and allowed 10 seconds for that operation, it would take 60,000 man hours. As I said, this is a load off the hard-pressed licensing offices.

LORD PARGITER

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that this matter might be disposed of by altering the layout of the log book?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, that is another question.

VISCOUNT DILHORNE

My Lords, will the noble Lord say what one can do if one has the misfortune to have one's road fund licence stolen, and one does not want to drive the car after the licence has expired? What can one do if the licence is not there and there is no entry in any log book?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I have had my troubles, too, and I have always found the licensing authorities extremely helpful. I am certain that if one writes in and explains the situation, they will give the necessary information which will enable one to remain within the law.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, can the noble Lord say how much money the Government reckon they have saved as a result of the introduction of this practice and of saving 60,000 man hours?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I think it is not a question of saving money. It is a question of not increasing staff as the pressure on the licensing offices grows.

LORD AILWYN

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that one useful result of carrying out my noble friend's idea would have been that I could not have had my licence endorsed a fortnight ago?