HL Deb 13 February 1969 vol 299 cc572-5

3.8 p.m.

LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress the British Airports Authority has made in—

1. Building a second runway at Gatwick;

2. Extending the existing runway so that this Airport can handle the DC8s in the summer season of 1969.]

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I understand from the British Airports Authority that these developments are under consideration but that they have, as yet, taken no decision on whether or not to seek planning permission for either project. Neither project can come into operation this summer.

LORD MACPHERSON 0F DRUMOCHTER

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that in their Annual Report for 1967–68 the British Airports Authority stressed the need for a second runway? I would also ask the Minister whether it is the intention that Stansted be used for these large DC.8 aircraft during the coming year, and is it the Government's intention to give permission for these huge aircraft to operate during the night?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, the answer to the first of the three questions is, Yes; I did know that it was in the Report. As to the second question, if it is possible for the British Airports Authority to use the facilities now available at Stansted, then obviously they will do so before committing themselves to the expenditure necessary for the second runway at Gatwick.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, could the noble Lord say whether there is a priority list for these airports? Have they remembered Turnhouse?

LORD TREFGARNE

My Lords, reverting to the original Question, is it not the case that an additional runway at Gatwick will not result in doubling the capacity of that airport? Is it not the case that the topographical restrictions on the construction of a second runway will result only in some 15 or 20 per cent. increase in traffic there?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, it is the case that if there were a second runway at Gatwick it would not double the capacity of the airport. It is also the case that the British Airports Authority have made provision for the necessary expenditure on a second runway within the next five years. All that I have said before—I know what the noble Lord is getting at—is that the British Airports Authority have made their calculations on the basis of a second runway at Gatwick.

THE EARL OF KINNOULL

My Lords, could the noble Lord confirm whether a public inquiry will be necessary before a second runway is built?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, planning permission will have to be obtained in the usual way.

THE EARL OF KINNOULL

My Lords, would the noble Lord also confirm that the second runway is already in the development plan of the Surrey County Council, and therefore planning permission would not necessarily be required?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I can only repeat what I have said already: that if there is to be a second runway at Gatwick, planning permission will be required.

LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTER

My Lords, could the Minister kindly answer my second point? That is, whether permission will be given for these DC.8 aircraft use Stansted during the night time.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, as of now there is no embargo on night flying at Stansted.

VISCOUNT DILHORNE

My Lords, were not all the calculations with regard to the time when a third London Airport would be required based on the assumption that long before then there would be a second runway at Gatwick? What is holding up the development of the second runway? The noble Lord said that the British Airports Authority have the matter under consideration. But surely it should be proceeded with if there is a real need for further airport access.

LORD BESWICK

Yes, my Lords; as the noble and learned Viscount has said, the calculations to which we referred in the discussions we have had on this problem took into account the traffic which would be possible at Gatwick if there were a second runway. But at the moment there are assets under-used at Stansted, and nothing has been said in this House, or in any other House, which suggests that those assets should not reasonably be used while they are there. But that does not mean to say that within the five-year programme a start would not be made on the construction of the second runway at Gatwick, if it is necessary.

LORD TREFGARNE

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether it is the intention of the British Airports Authority to extend the hours of operation at Stansted this summer to continue right through the night, as happened last summer? I believe that at the moment it shuts at 11 o'clock at night.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I will find out the answer and let the noble Lord know.