§ 2.43 p.m.
§ LORD BROOKE OF CUMNORMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, from April 1, 1969, every police force is at liberty to use its best endeavours to bring its strength up to establishment.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD STONHAM)My Lord,, I regret that I am unable to give the noble Lord the categorical assurance he seeks. It is still necessary to ensure that expenditure on the police and other public services does not increase unduly, and my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has had to ask police authorities 67 to restrain the rate at which they increase the strengths of their forces. This is being done in accordance with a scheme agreed with the representatives of the police authorities. As the scheme is based on the size of deficiencies, those forces in which the deficiency is largest are being least restrained; and for those forces which are nearer full strength the restraint is of less consequence. We hope that the general effect will be an increase in the strength of the Police Service in the current financial year by 2,000 regular police, besides traffic wardens and other civilians. An increase of this order will mean that we shall need to recruit some 7,500 officers to the regular police.
§ LORD BROOKE OF CUMNORMy Lords, if the total police strength is increased by 2,000 during the current year, as the noble Lord said, may I ask him how far that will still leave total police strength short of establishments? Secondly, at a time when the general public is deeply troubled about the growth of crime, and when, as the noble Lord has said, many police forces, particularly in the big cities, are far below strength, do not the Government consider it idiotic to prevent these chief constables from recruiting all the new police they can?
§ LORD STONHAMNo, my Lords. The present planned police strength—which is virtually the police strength now—is 92,000. The total establishment strengths of all the police forces of England and Wales is 110,000. That is a shortage of 18,000 now, and it will be 16,000 at the end of the financial year. We are of opinion that an increase of about 2,000 is what we can hope to get and represents a reasonable share of the nation's resources of men and money. The noble Lord's suggestion of allowing any individual authority to recruit as many as it could would defeat our main object, because it would permit recruitment in those areas where it is easy (and largely speaking they are the areas where the need is least) and would make it more difficult in those areas, mainly urban areas, where recruitment is more difficult. By having, as we have now, a permitted 10 per cent. increase of the deficit for all forces we are far more likely to have the available resources distributed in the best and most efficient manner.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, does not the noble Lord think, in the context of the increased police force, that we ought to go back to the old system rather than this modern thinking? To-day we have police in panda cars who fly about chasing motorists. Would it not be better to have the policeman back on his beat, with the association with the local people, and testing doors at night, with his lantern, to see that they are properly locked up?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I am sure we can quite understand the nostalgia with which my noble friend looks back on the good old days, But we do have policemen on the beat, and the present unit beat system, which covers 80 per cent. of the population of this country, is vastly more efficient and effective, because those unit beat police are supported by cars and by radio. In addition to those added aids, may I point out that police strength to-day is greater than it has ever been? And if we recruit 7,500 police officers this year it will be one of the highest figures ever, a figure exceeded only in 1966 and 1967 under this Government, and higher than was ever achieved by the previous Administration.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that if there is a disturbance in a big town it takes half an hour to get a policemen?
§ LORD BROOKE OF CUMNORMy Lords, even so, how do the Government justify placing a restriction on recruitment when, on their own admission, at the end of this second year of restriction police forces throughout the country will be some 15,000 under strength?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, we justify it entirely on the amount of funds which are likely to be available. The noble Lord is perfectly well aware that we could not possibly recruit 15,000 additional police officers in a year, or even in two or three years. What we are going to recruit this year is about what we are likely to obtain. As I hope I made clear to the noble Lord—and I hope he will accept—the way we are doing it will ensure that the extra numbers go where they are most needed, and the kind of free-for-all that he suggests would defeat this object. Under our method no recruits will be wasted. If when a force has been recruited up to its permitted increase there are any over at the end of the year, they 69 will be reallocated arid there will be no wasted recruitment.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, the noble Lord said that this is a matter of money. Have we not got the priorities wrong in spending £2 million a year on the Land Commission when we are short of policemen?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I think this is not a directly related subject. The noble Lord will, I hope, accept from me that if we are recruiting more police than we have ever recruited before we are spending more money on police than ever before, so in fact we have got our priorities right. In a time of great financial stringency and difficulty we are spending vastly more on police forces than ever before.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that it is a matter of how many police we need, and not how many more we have recruited?
§ LORD STONHAMYes, my Lords, I am perfectly well aware that it is a question of how many we need. But, of course, we are concerned with what is possible. As I have tried to make clear, it is not only a question of money. The field in which we can recruit is quite limited numerically, and we think that these numbers—as I have said, more than we have ever recruited before—quite apart from financial reasons, are what we can achieve this year.
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, the noble Lord has said that the size of the police force is a record one. Is it not the case that the figures of serious crime are also at a record level? And in view of the present state of the Metropolitan Police, can we really afford, with the serious crime in the Metropolis, to export policemen elsewhere?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, certainly it is the case that crime figures are at a record level and are still ascending, but the increase is at a substantially lower rate than in previous years when the noble and learned Viscount had greater responsibility for these matters.
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, could not the noble Lord at least give us the assurance that each police force is free 70 to recruit as many men as it can get as police cadets?
§ LORD STONHAMYes, my Lords; I can give that assurance.
§ LORD TREFGARNEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what would be the extra cost per year if this restriction on recruiting were removed?
§ LORD STONHAMNo, my Lords, I cannot; it is quite impossible. Frankly, I do not think the extra cost would be much greater, either on the central funds or on rates, because I do not think it would be possible, for the reasons I have given, to recruit many more. After all, in addition to the 2,000 increase in the police we are recruiting 2,100 additional traffic wardens and civilian aides to the police, which is a quite considerable increase. But the defect in the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Cumnor, is that if there were no restriction of this kind—if we had no agreed scheme with the police authorities, which we have—it would mean that we should get wide disparities. Where recruitment was easy and the need less we should spend more money, whereas we need to spend more money in areas where recruitment is difficult and we need more policemen.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware of the fact that I think our policemen are wonderful? Is he further aware of the fact that too many hours of the policeman's week are spent in clerical duties, on lounging about in magistrates' courts waiting for cases to he heard, and in undertaking traffic control duties and children's crossing duties which should be undertaken as far as possible by civilian labour? And would it not be useful if some constructive thought were directed along those channels to see that the policeman's time is used more fully on the catching of criminals?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I do not accept that our wonderful police lounge about. It is the case, of course, that the civilian aides to the police have increased out of all knowledge. My noble friend could not have heard what I said about traffic wardens and other civilian help. In the Metropolitan Area there will this year he an increase of 750 police officers and 635 traffic wardens. 71 Of course we are aware of the facts which have been mentioned, and we are taking decided steps to deal with them—in fact, far more decided steps than have ever been taken before. It is a great pity that this is not generally acknowledged, because it is a fact.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, while I admit a lot of what the Minister has said, may I ask whether he would not agree that the loss of police through early retirement is largely brought about by wives taking the view that they see less of their husbands than many other wives do of theirs? Would not the Government agree that the police might welcome an increase in their numbers so that they might be given more free time to be with their families? They might then be able to stay on for the more lengthly period of time which their training warrants.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, the rate of police wastage for all reasons—retirement, sickness and everything—is about 5,500 a year. It does not vary substantially over the years. We are aware of ail that the noble Lord has said, and, as I think I have abundantly proved, we are dealing with it.