HL Deb 22 October 1968 vol 296 cc1436-8

2.38 p.m.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government on what grounds and on what authority they have come to the conclusion that the forecourts of petrol stations on which the business of supplying petrol and giving various services to drivers of motor cars and other vehicles is carried on are no longer to be considered business premises for the purposes of the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (LORD KENNET)

My Lords, since doubt has been expressed whether or not forecourts are part of business premises, my right honourable friend proposed to amend the regulations to make clear that they should not be so regarded. He has received certain representations on the effects of this proposal, and will shortly be circulating revised proposals to the interested bodies.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. May I ask him whether, if the interpretation of this phrase is changed, it will mean that all advertisements at present on the enclosing walls of forecourts will require consent instead of, as in the past, existing under deemed consent?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I am reluctant to be drawn into a discussion of the details which will be in the revised proposals, but I think I can go so far as to say this: that if forecourts are declared not to be part of premises henceforward, it does not mean that all advertisements in forecourts will have to be subject to application. It would be possible to have a certain square footage subject to deemed consent.

LORD MOLSON

My Lords, does the Parliamentary Secretary mean by his reply that previously there has been no control of the many, and often most unsightly and disagreeable, advertisements on the forecourts of petrol stations in country districts?

LORD KENNET

Yes, my Lords, that is broadly so.

LORD SOMERS

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord how it is that the Government have come to the conclusion that forecourts are not business premises, since I think the noble Lord will agree that the forecourts are generally the only place in the garage where one can buy petrol? Does not the noble Lord agree that one cannot buy petrol by driving inside the garage?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, while it is true that one can buy petrol only in the forecourt, the regulations themselves define "business premises" as "a building normally used for carrying on a business". It is not at all clear to my right honourable friend that a forecourt is a building.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is his intention, when he has reached a conclusion on this matter, to make a Statement, or are we to wait for the regulations to be laid before we know the position?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, the, next step will be to send revised proposals to the interested parties and to discuss them with those parties.

LORD SOMERS

My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that anything which is built is a building, and that even if there are just four walls round r forecourt it is still a building?

LORD KENNET

I think not, my Lords.

BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEY

My Lords, am I right in thinking that if there is a roof over part of the forecourt then it is perhaps a building?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, it s precisely to get round these difficulties of interpretation that my right honourable friend proposes to clarify the matter in the regulations.

THE MARQUESS OF ABERDEEN AND TEMAIR

My Lords, if the pumps are under cover does that make the place business premises?

LORD KENNET

My Lords, this too, will be clarified in the regulatictis. I would ask your Lordships to notice how much clarification is needed.