Lords Sitting of 22 October 1968

Preamble
The House met at half past two of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Worcester

AIRCRAFT NAVIGATIONAL AIDS
2.36 p.m.
LORD TREFGARNE: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government—

(i) How many V.H.F. Omni-Directional Range (V.O.R.) beacons in the British airways system have colocated or associated Distance Measuring Equipment (D.M.E.) facilities;

(ii) whether they have any plans for increasing this number;

(iii) whether, in the light of its suitability for smaller aircraft, they, will approve the V.O.R./D.M.E. system as standard in addition to the Decca system already approved.]

LORD BESWICK: My Lords, eight of the V.H.F. Omni-Directional Range (V.O.R.) beacons in the United Kingdom airways system have co-located or associated Distance Measuring Equipment (D.M.E.) facilities. A plan to increase this number to twenty-four is proceeding and the majority (twenty-two) should be installed by December 31, 1969. V.O.R./D.M.E. is the I.C.A.O. standard short-range navigational aid and is also the approved standard system for that purpose in the United Kingdom. It is usable by any aircraft which carries the necessary airborne equipment. For flights under Instrument Flight Rules in controlled airspace, aircraft are required to be equipped with a V.O.R. receiver and an Automatic Direction Finder. No general exemption from this requirement is granted but it has been agreed that Decca equipment may be used instead. There is no requirement at present for
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aircraft to be equipped with a D.M.E. receiver; this could become necessary and the matter is being kept under review.
LORD TREFGARNE: My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord for that Answer, as always. Will he give consideration to granting approval for the carriage, particularly by aircraft of less than 12,500 lb. all-up weight, of a V.O.R./D.M.E. system as an alternative to the V.O.R./A.D.F. system and a further alternative to the Decca system?
LORD BESWICK: My Lords, yes, they can, if they so wish, carry that equipment. There is no mandatory requirement at the present time.
LORD TREFGARNE: My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord quite understood me. I was seeking approval for the carriage of the V.O.R./D.M.E. equipment as separate from, and not including, the V.O.R./A.D.F. or the Decca system.
LORD BESWICK: My Lords, I may well have misunderstood the noble Lord, but I tell him again in the same terms that no approval is required for them to carry it. If the noble Lord is asking the question whether it ought to be mandatory, then the answer is, not as yet.

ADVERTISEMENTS ON PETROL STATION FORECOURTS
2.38 p.m.
LORD DRUMALBYN: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government on what grounds and on what authority they have come to the conclusion that the forecourts of petrol stations on which the business of supplying petrol and giving various services to drivers of motor cars and other vehicles is carried on are no longer to be considered business premises for the purposes of the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (LORD KENNET): My Lords, since doubt has been expressed whether or not forecourts

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are part of business premises, my right honourable friend proposed to amend the regulations to make clear that they should not be so regarded. He has received certain representations on the effects of this proposal, and will shortly be circulating revised proposals to the interested bodies.
LORD DRUMALBYN: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. May I ask him whether, if the interpretation of this phrase is changed, it will mean that all advertisements at present on the enclosing walls of forecourts will require consent instead of, as in the past, existing under deemed consent?
LORD KENNET: My Lords, I am reluctant to be drawn into a discussion of the details which will be in the revised proposals, but I think I can go so far as to say this: that if forecourts are declared not to be part of premises henceforward, it does not mean that all advertisements in forecourts will have to be subject to application. It would be possible to have a certain square footage subject to deemed consent.
LORD MOLSON: My Lords, does the Parliamentary Secretary mean by his reply that previously there has been no control of the many, and often most unsightly and disagreeable, advertisements on the forecourts of petrol stations in country districts?
LORD KENNET: Yes, my Lords, that is broadly so.
LORD SOMERS: My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord how it is that the Government have come to the conclusion that forecourts are not business premises, since I think the noble Lord will agree that the forecourts are generally the only place in the garage where one can buy petrol? Does not the noble Lord agree that one cannot buy petrol by driving inside the garage?
LORD KENNET: My Lords, while it is true that one can buy petrol only in the forecourt, the regulations themselves define "business premises" as "a building normally used for carrying on a business". It is not at all clear to my right honourable friend that a forecourt is a building.
LORD DRUMALBYN: My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether it is his intention, when he has reached a
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conclusion on this matter, to make a Statement, or are we to wait for the regulations to be laid before we know the position?
LORD KENNET: My Lords, the, next step will be to send revised proposals to the interested parties and to discuss them with those parties.
LORD SOMERS: My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that anything which is built is a building, and that even if there are just four walls round r forecourt it is still a building?
LORD KENNET: I think not, my Lords.
BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEY: My Lords, am I right in thinking that if there is a roof over part of the forecourt then it is perhaps a building?
LORD KENNET: My Lords, it s precisely to get round these difficulties of interpretation that my right honourable friend proposes to clarify the matter in the regulations.
THE MARQUESS OF ABERDEEN AND TEMAIR: My Lords, if the pumps are under cover does that make the place business premises?
LORD KENNET: My Lords, this too, will be clarified in the regulatictis. I would ask your Lordships to notice how much clarification is needed.

CYPRIOT STUDENTS' ENTRY PERMITS
LORD VIVIAN: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Govern vent:

(a) How many applications have been made by Cypriots in the past year for permits to enter Great Britain, especially to attend niversities or industrial colleges;

(b) how many have been granted entry permits;

(c) how many have been refused entry permits.]

BARONESS SEROTA: My Lords, in the year ended September 30, 11,376 entry certificates were issued in Cyprus

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and 1,540 refused. These included 654 certificates issued to students, and 64 student applications refused. If there is any further information the noble Lord wishes to have, I shall be pleased to write to him about it.
LORD VIVIAN: My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for the figures she has given, may I ask whether she is aware that during the past year a number of Cypriot students have been admitted to Russia to finish their studies over a two-year course? No fees are payable, as return transport and pocket money are provided. Furthermore, is the noble Baroness aware that many responsible Cypriots are perturbed about this, since Cyprus has a very small number of Communistic-thinking people at the present time?
BARONESS SEROTA: My Lords, if the noble Lord has any individual cases in mind that are causing him concern, it would perhaps be more satisfactory if he would let me have the particulars. As I said. I shall be only too happy to correspond with him about this matter.
LORD VIVIAN: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, and I will take advantage of what she has said.

NIGERIA:BIAFRA AND INTERNATIONAL OBSERVERS
LORD BROCKWAY: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what response has been made to the invitation from the Biafran authorities to the international observers (appointed to report on the conduct of the Nigerian forces) to visit the Ibo heartland so that they may see the effects of the war from both sides.]
THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD SHEPHERD): My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have themselves received no such invitation. The international observer team, on which we are represented, is in Nigeria at the invitation of the Federal Government. Any extension of the team's activities would
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be a matter for consideration by the Federal Government and the team of observers.
LORD BROCKWAY: My Lords, in thanking my noble friend for that Answer, may I ask whether he is not aware that more than a week ago Colonel Ojukwu indicated officially that he would be prepared to accept observers on the Biafran side? May I ask my noble friend whether it is not very desirable that some bridge should be made between the two sides, which might be done if there could be co-operation even on the problem of observers; and is it not desirable that the observers should notice the actions of Biafran forces as well as Federal forces and be in Biafra to be able to judge the truth of the alleged attacks upon medical relief and civilian sites? Are not all these things desirable? And could they not be done with some initiative on the part of one of our Governments?
LORD SHEPHERD: My Lords, if I remember the four questions correctly, may I say first of all that Colonel Ojukwu I believe made a radio communication; but we have had many other communications. We have had nothing official from the Biafran authorities, and so far as I know no other Government which has provided observers has received such approaches. I would readily agree that there might be advantages if the observers were on both sides, but my noble friend will know that Colonel Ojukwu spurned the whole idea of observers when they were first appointed, and the observers are now in Nigeria at the invitation of the Federal Government. I hope that if Colonel Ojukwu really means that there should be observers seeing both sides, he will make contact either with the Federal Government or the team of observers themselves, because this team is an independent body and is not answerable directly to any Government.
THE EARL OF BESSBOROUGH: My Lords, could the noble Lord tell us a little more about the composition of the team of international observers and exactly what their terms of reference are? The noble Lord said they are not responsible to any Government.
LORD SHEPHERD: My Lords, I said directly responsible. The team of observers is made up of a representative of

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U Thant and representatives from O.A.U., Britain, Canada, Sweden and Poland. The terms of reference are broadly to witness and inspect the military activities of the Federal army. If it would be helpful to the noble Earl, I shall certainly be happy to place in the Library the first two reports of this team of observers, a report that was unanimous from all the observers themselves.
LORD BROCKWAY: My Lords, in view of the terrible need for ending or controlling this war, is it not possible to break through these legalistic difficulties? Is it not the case that the Biafran Government would find it very difficult to communicate with Her Majesty's Government because Her Majesty's Government do not recognise the Biafran authorities, and is it not possible for my noble friend's Department to find some breakthrough so that communication can take place which would lead to this progressive result?
LORD SHEPHERD: My Lords, certainly I wish to see the bridge to which my noble friend referred. I thought some three weeks ago there was a bridge, when representations were made through the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth Secretariat to the British Government; and as my noble friend will know, I was within hours on my way to Lagos to see whether the bridge could be firmly built, only to find, within days of arrival in Lagos, that the whole idea of a bridge was absolutely spurned by Colonel Ojukwu, again by radio.
BARONESS SUMMERSKILL: My Lords, if it is clear that Colonel Ojukwu has now changed his mind—and we cannot expect everybody to have a very high intelligence in these matters—should we not welcome it and offer ourselves as intermediaries, and not just tell him he has got to get on with it and get in touch with the Federal authorities himself?
LORD SHEPHERD: My Lords, I know it is very difficult to accept legalistic arguments. One must remember that Nigeria is a sovereign independent country and therefore all our relations with that Government country must be on a proper footing. We have done all we can. Certainly if there were any way that I could think of apart from what we
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have already done to bring this was to an end we would do it. If the presence of observers in Biafra was what could bring the war more speedily to an end, I believe General Gowon and the Federal Government would seize that opportunity.
BARONESS HORSBRUGH: My Lords, could the noble Lord say whether, if Biafra asked for an extra observer from, say, Britain and Sweden and other countries, we should refuse?
LORD SHEPHERD: My Lords, as I have just said to my noble friend, I Nigeria is a sovereign independent country. There is a rebellion in that country, and therefore one has to take that into account in the steps that one takes officially. But we have done many things to try to bring the two sides together, and we will continue to do so.

SAINT MARY, HORNSEY BILL
2.50 p.m.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF LISTOWEL)THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF LISTOWEL) rose to move:
That the Promoters of the Bill have leave to suspend any further proceedings thereon, in order to proceed with the Bill, if they shall think fit, in the next Session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so be lodged in the Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments not later than three o'clock on the day before the close of the present Session, and that all fees due thereon up to that period shall have been paid:
That, if the Bill is brought from the Commons in the next Session, the Agent for the Bill shall deposit in the Private Bill Office a declaration, signed by him, stating that the Bill is the same, in every respect, as the Bill which was brought from the Commons in the present Session:
That the proceedings on such Bill shall, in the next Session of Parliament, be pro formâ only in regard to every stage through which the same shall have passed in the present Session and that no new fees be charged in regard to such stages:
That the Standing Orders by which the proceedings on Bills are regulated shall not apply, in the next Session of Parliament, to such Bill in regard to any of the stages through which the Name

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shall have passed during the present Session.
The noble Earl said: My Lords, I beg to move the first Motion standing in my name. The House will see that I am asking for agreement to two Resolutions standing in my name on the Order Paper, one relating to this Bill, and the other to the Saint Saviour, Paddington Bill. The purpose of these Resolutions is to enable these Bills to continue their progress through Parliament next Session. It is in no way the fault of the Promoters that the Bills have not been through both Houses before the end of this Session. I am therefore asking the House to agree to allow this Bill to be carried over into the next Session. I will formally move the same Motion in connection with the Saint Saviour, Paddington Bill.
Your Lordships will recollect that on July 12 last the House debated Instructions in regard to the Saint Mary, Hornsey Bill and the Saint Saviour, Paddington Bill. The Instructions were moved by the noble Lord, Lord Molson, in the case of the first Bill and the noble Lord, Lord Faringdon, in the case of the second Bill. It became apparent during the debate that it was the wish of the House that both Bills should be subject to consideration by a Select Committee. I will. therefore, make the necessary Report early in the next Session which will have the effect of referring the Bills to a Select Committee. My Lords, I beg to move.
Moved accordingly and, on Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly: Ordered, That a Message be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

SAINT SAVIOUR, PADDINGTON BILL
THE EARL OF LISTOWEL: My Lords, I beg to move the second Motion standing in my name. The remarks I made in connection with the previous Bill apply equally in this case. I would therefore ask the House to agree to this Motion. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Promoters of the Bill have leave to suspend any further proceedings thereon, in order to proceed with the Bill, if they shall think fit, in
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the next Session of Parliament, provided that notice of their intention to do so be lodged in the Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments not later than three o'clock on the day before the close of the present Session, and that all fees due thereon up to that period shall have been paid:
That, if the Bill is brought from the Commons in the next Session, the Agent for the Bill shall deposit in the Private Bill Office a declaration, signed by him, stating that the Bill is the same, in every respect, as the Bill which was brought from the Commons in the present Session:
That the proceedings on such Bill shall, in the next Session of Parliament, be pro formâ only in regard to every stage through which the same shall have passed in the present Session and that no new fees be charged in regard to such stages:
That the Standing Orders by which the proceedings on Bills are regulated shall not apply, in the next Session of Parliament, to such Bill in regard to any of the stages through which the same shall have passed during the present Session.—(The Earl of Listowel.)
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly: Ordered, That a Message be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

MEDICINES BILL
Returned from the Commons on Friday last, with certain of the Lords Amendments agreed to; with certain other Lords Amendments agreed to with Amendments, and with a consequential Amendment to the Bill: the said Commons Amendments printed, pursuant to Standing Order No. 45.

TRANSPORT BILL
Returned from the Commons earlier this day, with certain of the Lords Amendments agreed to; with certain other of the Lords Amendments agreed to with Amendments, and with consequential Amendments to the Bill; with certain other Lords Amendments disagreed to, with Amendments made to the words so restored to the Bill; with certain other Lords Amendments disagreed to, but Amendments proposed in lieu thereof; and with the remaining Lords Amendments disagreed to, with Reasons

1445
for such disagreement: the said Commons Amendments and Reasons printed, pursuant to Standing Order No. 45.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
LORD BESWICK: My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I beg to move the Motion standing in his name: That leave be given to the Lord Bishop of Worcester to advance his Motion on the Prayer Book (Further Provisions) (No. 2) Measure from Thursday next to this day, and that it be taken after the Design Copyright Bill. I had also intended to clarify the italics note on the Order Paper and suggest that the Medicines Bill be taken after the Prayer Book Measure, which is what the italics note was intended to mean. However, I understand that there is another proposal, to which I would be prepared to listen, by the noble Lord, Lord Newton, if he has the general agreement of the House, to advance the Medicines Bill.
LORD NEWTON: My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, for raising this point which I should like to mention. The Order Paper is slightly ambiguous as to which of these two matters of Business is to be taken first. I am wondering, therefore, whether your Lordships might consider taking first the Commons Amendments to the Medicines Bill, because when we reach that Business I propose to suggest to the House, simply as my suggestion on behalf of the Opposition, that those Amendments be taken formally. I have asked the right reverend Prelate whether he would object to this Business coming before his Motion, and he was kind enough to say that he would not. In these circumstances I suggest that it might be helpful to your Lordships if we took that course.
LORD BESWICK: My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Nugent. On the understanding that the Business on the Medicines Bill is formal, and that the right reverend Prelate has agreed to this course, I should have thought that it would be for the convenience of the House.
On Question, Motion, as amended, agreed to.

MEDICINES BILL
2.55 p.m.
LORD KENNET: My Lords, I beg to move that the Commons Amendments to certain of the Lords Amendment and Commons consequential Amendment to the Bill be now considered.
Moved, That the Commons Amendments and Commons consequential Amendment be now considered.—(Lord Kennet.)
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD GARDINER): My Lords, the Marshalled List contains for convenience of reference not only the Commons Amendments which this House has now to consider but also the original Lords Amendments to which the Commons Amendments relate. I shall, of course, call the Commons Amendments only. I should also explain that on page 12 of the Marshalled List, the Commons Amendment printed after Amendment No. 24 lacks a number. I propose to refer to it as Amendment No. 24A.
LORD NEWTON: My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, for agreeing to take this Bill now, and naturally I agree will the Motion which has been moved by the noble Lord, Lord Kennet. I should like to suggest that the House might care to take the Commons Amendments formally. I can speak only for my Party officially on this matter, but these, are all Amendments which are acceptable to us indeed, I think that in many respects they are an improvement on the Amendments which we sent from this House to the other place.
LORD KENNET: My Lords, that is acceptable to noble Lords on these Benches, and unless there is any noble Lord who wishes to speak to these Amendments I will, with the leave of the House, move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments—
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, I have not yet put the Question on the Motion, That the Commons Amendments to certain of the Lords Amendments and the Commons consequential Amendment be now considered.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

LORDS AMENDMENT
[References are to Bill 157 as first printed for the Lords. Commons Amendments are printed in italics]
[No. 1]
After Clause 30, insert the following new clause:
Medicinal tests on animals
".—(1)Subject to the following provisions of this Act, no person shall, in the course of a business carried on by him—

(a) sell or supply any medicinal product for the purposes of a medicinal test on animals, or

(b) procure the sale or supply of any medicinal product for the purposes of such a test, or

(c) procure the manufacture or assembly of any medicinal product for sale or supply for the purposes of such a test,

unless one or other of the conditions specified in the next following subsection is fulfilled.
(2) Those conditions, in relation to a person doing any of the things specified in the preceding subsection, are?—

(a) that he is the holder of a product licence which authorises the test in question, or he does it to the order of the holder of such a licence, and (in either case) he does it in accordance with that licence;

(b) that a certificate for the purposes of this section (in this Act referred to as an 'animal test certificate') has been issued certifying that, subject to the provisions of the certificate, the licensing authority have consented to the test in question and that certificate is for the time being in force and the test is to be carried out in accordance with that certificate.

(3) Subject to the following provisions of this Act, no person shall import any medicinal product for the purposes of a medicinal test on animals unless either—

(a) he is the holder of a product licence which authorises that test, or imports the product to the order of the holder of such a licence, and (in either case) he imports it in accordance with that licence, or

(b) an animal test certificate has been issued certifying as mentioned in subsection (2)(b) of this section and that certificate is for the time being in force and the test is to be carried out in accordance with that certificate.

(4) Subject to the following provisions of this Act, no person shall, in the course of a business carried on by him, administer any substance or article to an animal by way of a medicinal test on animals, or procure any substance or article to be so administered, unless either—

(a) in the case of a medicinal product, there is in force a product licence (whether held by him or by another person) which authorises that test and the product is administered in accordance with that licence
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or in accordance with any instructions required by the licence to be communicated to the person carrying out the test, or

(b) whether the substance or article is a medicinal product or not, an animal test certificate has been issued certifying as mentioned in subsection (2)(b) of this section and that certificate is for the time being in force and the substance or article is administered in accordance with that certificate.

(5) For the purposes of this section a product licence shall be taken to be a licence which authorises a particular medicinal test on animals if—

(a) the substance or article to be administered in the test is a medicinal product of a description to which the licence relates, and

(b) the uses of medicinal products of that description which are referred to in the licence are such as to include their use for the purposes of that test.

(6) In this Act medicinal test on animals' means any of the following, that is to say—

(a) the administration of a medicinal product of a particular description to one or more animals, where there is evidence that medicinal products of that description have effects which may be beneficial to, or otherwise advantageous in relation to, that animal or those animals, and the product is administered for the purpose of ascertaining whether, or to what extent, it has those or any other effects, whether advantageous or otherwise;

(b) the administration of a medicinal product to one or more animals in circumstances where there is no such evidence as is mentioned in the preceding paragraph, and the product is administered for the purpose of ascertaining whether, or to what extent, it has any effects relevant to a medicinal purpose;

(c) the administration of any substance or article, other than a medicinal product, to one or more animals for the purpose of ascertaining whether it has any effects relevant to a medicinal purpose, whether there is evidence that it has effects which may be beneficial to. or otherwise advantageous in relation to, that animal or those animals or not."

The Commons agreed to this Amendment, but proposed the following Amendment there to:—
[No. 2]
Line 63, after "means" insert "an investigation or series of investigations consisting of"

LORDS AMENDMENT
[No. 3]
After Clause 30, insert the following new clause:
Exemptions in respect of medicinal tests on animals
".—(1) The restrictions imposed by subsections (1) and (4) of section (Medicinal test on animals) of this Act do not apply to anything done in relation to a substance or

1449
article for the purposes or by way of a medicinal test on animals if—

(a) the test is, or is to be, carried out in circumstances where there is no evidence that the substance or article has effects which may be beneficial to, or otherwise advantageous in relation to, the animal or animals to which it is, or is to be, administered, and

(b) the arrangements for the test are such as to secure that no animal to which the substance or article is administered in the course of the test, and no carcase or part of the carcase or produce of any such animal, will be sold or supplied for human consumption.

(2) Subject to the next following subsection, the restrictions imposed by subsections (1) and (4) of that section do not apply to a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner in respect of his—

(a) selling or supplying, or procuring the sale or supply of, a medicinal product for the purpose of its being administered to one or more animals which are under his care, Or

(b) procuring the manufacture or assembly of a medicinal product where the product is specially prepared to his order for the purpose of its being administered to one or more such animals, or

(c) administering a substance or article to an animal which is under his care, or procuring a substance or article to be so administered.

(3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not have effect so as to exempt from the restrictions in question anything done—?

(a)in relation to a vaccine specially prepared for administration to poultry, or

(b) in relation to any other vaccine, unless the vaccine is specially prepared for administration to the animal from which it is derived, or

(c) in relation to plasma or a serum, unless the plasma or serum is specially prepared for administration to one or mono animals in the herd from which it is derived.

(4) Subject to subsection (6) of this section, the restrictions imposed by subsection (1) of that section do not apply to anything which is done in a registered pharmacy and is done there by or under the supervision of a pharmacist and consists of dispensing a medicinal product in accordance with a prescription given by a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practioner, and those restrictions do not apply to anything clone by or under the supervision of a pharmacist which consists of procuring the preparation or dispensing of a medicinal product in accordance with a prescription given by a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner or of procuring the assembly of a medicinal product.
(5) Subject to subsection (6) of this section, the restrictions imposed by subsection (1) of that section also do not apply to anything done in relation to a medicinal product where—

(a) it is done by the person who, in the course of a business carried on by him, has
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manufactured or assembled the product to the order of a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner who has stated I hat it is required for administration to an animal or herd which is under his care, or is required, at the request of another veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner, for administration to an animal or herd which is under the care of that other veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner, or

(b) it is done by the person who, in the course of a business carried on by him, has manufactured or assembled the prods ct to the order of a pharmacist in accordance with a prescription given by a practitioner, or

(c) it consists of selling the product by way of wholesale dealing where it has been manufactured or assembled in the circumstances specified in paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) of this subsection.

(6) The exemptions conferred by subsections (4) and (5) of this section do not apply to a vaccine specially prepared for administration to poultry, and do not apply to any other vaccine or any plasma or serum prepared or dispensed for administration to an animal or herd unless

(a) in the case of a vaccine, it is specially prepared for administration to the a timid from which it is derived, or

(b) in the case of plasma or a serum, it has been specially prepared for administration to one or more animals in the herd from which it is derived."

The Commons agreed to this Amend neat, hut proposed the following Amenament thereto:—
[No. 4]
Line 30, after "section", insert "shall not have effect in relation to a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner where the medicinal test in question is to be carried out under arrangements made by, or a the request of, another person, and (where the arrangements are made by the veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner and not at the request of any other person)".

LORDS AMENDMENT
[No. 5]
After Clause 30, insert the following new clause:
Supplementary provisions as to clinical trials and medicinal tests on animals
".—(1) The restrictions imposed by section 7 of this Act do not apply to anything done in accordance with a clinical trial certificate or an animal test certificate.
(2) The restrictions imposed by section 8(2) of this Act—

(a) do not apply to the manufacture or assembly of any medicinal product for the sole purpose of its being administerec by way of a clinical trial, or of its being sold. supplied or exported for the sole purpose of being so administered, and

(b) do not apply to the manufacture or assembly of any medicinal product for the sole purpose of its being administered by

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way of a medicinal test on animals, or of its being sold, supplied or exported for the sole purpose of its being so administered, unless the product falls within a class of medicinal products specified in an order made for the purposes of this paragraph by the Agriculture Ministers.

(3) No class of medicinal products shall be specified in an order for the purposes of paragraph (b) of subsection (2) of this section unless it appears to the Agriculture Ministers to be requisite to do so for securing that the exemption conferred by that paragraph does not apply to medicinal products consisting wholly or partly of substances the purity or potency of which cannot, in their opinion, be adequately tested by chemical means.
(4) Neither the restrictions imposed by section 7 of this Act nor those imposed by section (Clinical trials) (2) of this Act apply to anything done exclusively for the purpose of a clinical trial which is to he carried out wholly outside the United Kingdom; and neither the restrictions imposed by section 7 of this Act nor those imposed by section (Medicinal tests on animals) (1) of this Act apply to anything done in relation to a medicinal product for the purposes of a medicinal test on animals which is to be carried out wholly outside the United Kingdom unless the product falls within a class specified in an order made for the purposes of subsection (2)(b) of this section.
(5) Where the holder of a manufacturer's licence manufactures or assembles any medicinal product for sale or supply for the purposes of a clinical trial or a medicinal test on animals, and—

(a) a clinical trial certificate or animal test certificate has been issued and is for the time being in force in respect of that trial or test, and the trial or test is to be carried out in accordance with that certificate, and

(b) the product is so manufactured or assembled as to comply with any requirements of the certificate relating to the products to be administered in the trial or test.

then, if the conditions specified in subsection (1) of section 23 of this Act are not fulfilled in relation to the product, that section shall have effect in relation to it as if those conditions were fulfilled.
(6) Without prejudice to subsection (5) of this section. section 23(1) of this Act shall not have effect in relation to the manufacture or assembly of any medicinal product for sale or supply for the purposes of a medicinal test on animals, where the product falls within a class specified in an order made for the purposes of subsection (2)(b) of this section.
(7) For the purposes of sections (Clinical trials) and (Medicinal tests on animals) of this Act a person shall not be treated as doing anything, or procuring anything to be done, for the purposes of a clinical trial or of a medicinal test on animals if

(a) the trial or test is, or is to be, carried out under arrangements to which he is not a party, and

1452

(b) he has not been informed of those arrangements.

(8) The appropriate Ministers may by order provide—

(a)that subsection (2) or subsection (4) of section (Clinical trials) of this Act shall have effect subject to such exemptions (other than those for the time being having effect by virtue of subsections (5) to (7) of that section and subsection (4) of this section) as may be specified in the order;

(b) that section (Medicinal tests on animals) of this Act shall have effect subject to such exemptions (other than those for the time being having effect by virtue of section (Exemptions in respect of medicinal tests on animals) of this Act and subsection (4) of this section) as may be so specified.

(9) Any exemption conferred by an order under subsection (8) of this section may be conferred subject to such conditions or limitations as may be specified in the order.
(10) The appropriate Ministers may by order provide that any of the provisions of subsections (5) to (7) of section (Clinical trials) of this Act, or any of the provisions of section (Exemptions in respect of medicinal tests on animals) of this Act, or subsection (4) of this section. shall cease to have effect, or shall have effect subject to such exceptions or modifications as may be specified in the order.
(11) No order shall be made under subsection (10) of this section unless a draft of the order has been laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament."
The Commons agreed to this Amendment, but proposed the following Amendments there to—
[Nose. 6 and 7]
Line 67, leave out "(7)" and insert "(8)"
Line 80, leave out "(7)" and insert "(8)"

LORDS AMENDMENT
[No. 8]
After Clause 37, insert the following new clause:
Supplementary provisions as to incorporation of substances and articles in animal feeding stuffs.
".—(1) Where in the course of a business carried on by him a person incorporates a substance or article, other than a medicinal product, in any animal feeding stuff with a view to—

(a) feeding it, with the substance or article incorporated in it, to one or more animals, or

(b) selling, supplying or exporting it with the substance or article incorporated in it, and the substance or article is so incorporated by him for a medicinal purpose, sections 36(3) and 37 of this Act shall have effect in relation to the incorporation of that substance or article as if it were a medicinal product.

(2) Where in the course of a business carried on by him a person proposes—

(a) to sell or supply a substance or article, other than a medicinal product, to persons

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who for a medicinal purpose may require to incorporate it in animal feeding stuffs to be fed to one or more animals, or

(b) to manufacture a substance or article, other than a medicinal product, for sale or supply as mentioned in the preceding paragraph,

he may, if he so desires, apply for a product licence in respect of that substance or article, and the licensing authority (subject to the provisions of sections 19 to 22 of this Act) may grant to him a product licence in respect of it, as if it were a medicinal product and he were proposing to sell or supply it in circumstances to which section 7(2) of this Act applies; and a product licence so granted may be renewed, suspended, revoked or varied accordingly.
(3) Where a person proposes to sell, supply or manufacture a substance or article, other than a medicinal product, in the circumstances specified in paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) of subsection (2) of this section, any person who proposes, by purchase or otherwise, to obtain from him a supply of the substance or article with a view to incorporating it for a medicinal purpose in any animal feeding stuff may, if he so desires, apply for a product licence in respect of that substance or article, and the licensing authority (subject to the provisions of sections 19 to 22 of this Act) may grant to him a product licence in respect of it, as if it were a medicinal product and he were proposing to procure the sale or supply, or the manufacture for sale or supply, of that product in circumstances to which section 7(2) of this Act applies; and a product licence so granted may he renewed, suspended, revoked or varied accordingly.
(4) On the grant, renewal or variation (whether by virtue of subsection (2) or subsection (3) of this section or otherwise) of a product licence, in so far as it relates to any substance or article which is to he incorporated in animal feeding stuffs, the licence may (without prejudice to the generality of section 20(1) of this Act) include provisions as to the manner in which the substance or article in question may he so incorporated, whether by the holder of the licence or by any other person to whom those provisions of the licence have been communicated.
(5) Without prejudice to the operation of section 117(6) of this Act, a substance manufactured, sold, supplied or exported as an animal feeding stuff shall not be taken to be a medicinal product for the purposes of this Act by reason only that any of the preceding provisions of this section has effect in relation to a substance or article incorporated in it.
(6) The appropriate Ministers may by order provide that any of the provisions of section 36 of this Act or of subsections (1) to (5) of this section shall cease to have effect, or shall have effect subject to such exceptions or modifications as may he specified in the order.
(7) No order shall be made under subsection (6) of this section unless a draft of the order has been laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament."
The Commons agreed to this Amendment, but made the following consequential Amendment to the Bill:—
[No. 9]
Clause 102, page 94, line 24, after "incorporated", insert "or in which any substance or article has been incorporated for a medicinal purpose".

LORDS AMENDMENT
[No. 10]
After Clause 37, insert the following new clause:
Extension of s. 7 to certain special circumstances
".—(1) Where in the course of a business carried on by him a person sells or exports a substance or article for use wholly or vainly in either or both of the ways specified n section 117(1) of this Act, and the substance or article, not having been—

(a) manufactured or imported for such use, or

(b) previously sold or supplied for such use,

does not constitute a medicinal product before that person so sells or exports it, then (subject to subsection (2) of this section) subsect on (2) of section 7 of this Act, if apart fro n this subsection it would not so have effect. shall have effect in relation to the sale, or exportation of the substance or article as if him were selling or exporting it in circumstances to which that subsection applies.
(2) Subsection (1) of this section shell not have effect in relation to a person selling a substance or article by retail in the course of a business carried on by him unless the course of that business the substance or article has been assembled for the purpose of being sold by him.
(3) In any reference in this Part of this Act to the provisions of, or the restrictions imposed by, section 7 of this Act, the reference to that section shall be construed as including a reference to subsection (2) of that section as extended by the preceding subsections.
(4) Where in the course of a business carried on by him a person proposes to sell or export a substance or article for use as mentioned in subsection (I) of this section, where the substance or article will not constitute a me licinal product before he so sells or exports it and he will not be selling or exporting it n circumstances to which section 7(2) of this Act applies, he may, if he so desires, apply for a product licence in respect of that substance or article, and the licensing authority (subject to the provisions of sections 19 to 22 of this Act) may grant to him a product lice ice in respect of it, as if he were proposing to sell or export it in circumstances to which section 7(2) of this Act applies; and a product licence so granted may be renewed, suspended, revoked or varied accordingly.
(5) In subsection (2) of this section the reference to assembling a substance or article in the course of a business carried on by a person is a reference to doing in the course of that business anything which (in accordance with section 118(1) of this Act) would constitute assembling it if it had been a me licinal product when sold or supplied to him"
The Commons agreed to this Amendment, but proposed the following Amendments thereto:
[Nos. 11–20]
Line 2, after "sells" insert", supplies"
Line 8, after "sells" insert", supplies"
Line 11, after "sale" insert", supply"
Line 12, after "selling" insert", supplying"
Line 15, leave out from first "a" to "unless" in line 16 and insert" transaction whereby a person, in the course of a business carried on by him, sells a substance or article by retail or supplies a substance or article in circumstances corresponding to retail sale".
Line 18, after "sold" insert" or supplied"
Line 25, after "sell" insert", supply"
Line 28, after "sells" insert", supplies"
Line 28, after "selling" insert", supplying"
Line 33, after "sell" insert", supply"

LORDS AMENDMENT
[No. 21]
After Clause 105, insert the following new clause:
Special enforcement and sampling provisions relating to animal feeding stuffs
".—(1) For the purposes of the application of the provisions of sections 104 (Application of sampling procedure to substance or article seized under s. 104) and (Analysis of samples in other cases) of this Act in relation to animal feeding stuffs, regulations made by the Agriculture Ministers may provide that any of those provisions specified in the regulations shall have effect subject to such modifications as may be so specified.
(2) Regulations made by the Agriculture Ministers—

(a) may make provision as to the manner in which samples may be taken by virtue of the provisions of section 104 of this Act as modified by any regulations made under the preceding subsection, as to the manner in which samples may be set aside or substances or articles may be treated as samples, by virtue of the provisions of section (Application of sampling procedure to substance or article seized under s. 104) of this Act as so modified, or as to the manner in which samples may be submitted for analysis by virtue of the provisions of section (Analysis of samples in other cases) of this Act as so modified, and

(b) in relation to samples so taken, set aside or submitted for analysis, or substances or articles so treated as samples, may make provision (either in substitution for, or by way of modification of or addition to. any of the provisions of Schedule 3 to this Act) as to the manner in which such samples, substances and articles are to be dealt with.

(3) In relation to the incorporation in animal feeding stuffs of substances or articles of any description or class specified in an order made under this subsection by the Agriculture Ministers, so much of any licence granted or animal test certificate issued under Part II of this
1456
Act as imposes any restriction or requirement by reference to the quantity to be incorporated, or the proportion in which any substance or article may be incorporated, in any animal feeding stuff shall not to be taken to be contravened in any particular case if the discrepancy does not exceed such limit as may be specified by the order in relation to substances or articles of that description or class.
(4) In section 105(2)(b) of this Act the reference to section 104 of this Act shall be construed as including a reference to the provisions of that section as modified by any regulations made under this section.
(5) The powers conferred by subsection (2) of this section shall be exercisable in addition to any power exercisable by virtue of paragraph 25 of Schedule 3 to this Act."
The Commons agreed to this Amendment but proposed the following Amendments thereto:—
[Nos. 22 and 23]
Line 27, at end insert—
"() For the purposes of proceedings for such offences under this Act relating to animal feeding stuffs as may be prescribed by regulations made under subsection (2) of this section, the regulations may—

(a) prescribe a method of analysis to be used in analysing samples of animal feeding stuffs in order to determine what quantity or proportion (if any) of a substance or article of a description or class specified in the regulations has been incorporated in them, and

(b) provide that, on production in the proceedings of such evidence as may be so prescribed of the results of an analysis of a sample performed by the method so prescribed, evidence of the results of any analysis of any part of the sample performed by any other method shall not be admissible in those proceedings."

Line 38, at end insert—
"() Where a label or mark on a container or package containing any animal feeding stuff, or a leaflet supplied or to be supplied with any animal feeding stuff, specifies a quantity or proportion of a medicinal product of a particular description as being incorporated in the animal feeding stuff, section 83(2) of this Act shall not he taken to be contravened by reason only that the quantity or proportion actually incorporated in the animal feeding, stuff is greater or less than that so specified, if the discrepancy does not exceed such limit as the Agriculture Ministers may by order specify in relation to medicinal products of that description, or in relation to a class of medicinal products which includes medicinal products of that description."

LORDS AMENDMENTS
[No. 24]
Clause 116, page 106, line 20, after "98" insert (Special enforcement and sampling provisions relating to animal feeding stuffs) (3)".
[No. 24A]
The Commons agreed to this Amendment, but proposed the following Amendment thereto:
Line 2, leave out "(3)".

LORDS AMENDMENTS
[No.25]
Schedule 4, page 127, line 49, after "15(3)" insert "section (Supplementary provisions as to clinical trials and medicinal tests on animals), section (Supplemetary provisions as to incorporation of substances and articles in animal feeding stuffs) and section 50(3)".
The Commons agreed to this Amendment, but proposed the following Amendment thereto:—
[No. 26]
Line 4, leave out second "and" and insert "or".
LORD KENNET: My Lords, I apologise for having lost the trend of the procedure. I take it that the procedure outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Newton, is acceptable to the House. Therefore, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendments to the Lords Amendments and in their consequential Amendment to the Bill.
Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendments and in their consequential Amendment to the Bill.—(Lord Kennet.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

DESIGN COPYRIGHT BILL
House in Committee: Clauses agreed to.
House resumed: Bill reported without amendment; Report received.
Then, Standing Order No. 41 having been suspended (pursuant to Resolution of October 14), Bill read 3a, and passed.

PRAYER BOOK (FURTHER PROVISIONS) (No.2) MEASURE
3.0 p.m.
THE LORD BISHOP OF WORCESTER THE LORD BISHOP OF WORCESTER rose to move, That this House do direct that, in accordance with the Church of England Assembly (Powers) Act 1919, the Prayer Book (Further Provisions) (No.2) Measure be presented to Het Majesty for the Royal Assent. The right reverend Prelate said: My Lords, your Lordships will remember that this Motion was to have come before the House in July, but because of procedural difficulties in another place the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester did not move it. These difficulties have been overcome and the Measure and the Report of the Ecclesiastical Committee upon it have been re-laid. Although
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the Measure is designated "No/", it is, in fact, exactly the same Measure as was laid in July.
This Measure marks the last stage of the long and, for many of us, tedious process of Canon Law revision. At the last group of Sessions a fortnight ago, the Convocations petitioned the Crown for the Royal Writ to make and promulgate the last blocks of the new canons. Before Her Majesty's Assent cast be given to these canons it is necessary to ensure that six of them conform with the law. The object of this Measure is to do this by making certain amendments to the rubrics of the Book of Common Prayer and the Act of Uniformity of 1662. The nature and the effect of these amendments are fully set out in the Report of the Ecclesiastical Committee to which is attached comments and explanations of the Legislative Committee of the Church Assembly, and I am sure I need not take up your Lordships' time by going into them in any great detail.
The amendments fall under four headings. The first is the relaxation of the present law in order to permit authorised laymen and women to take the services of Morning and Evening Prayer and to read the Lessons; and to distribute the Sacrament and read the Epistle and the Gospel at the Holy Communion. The second covers amendments to the introductory rubrics of the three Baptism Services in the Prayer Book, the principal ones being, first, that due notice, Normally at least a week, is required secondly, that a Minister is permitted to delay baptism for the purpose of instructing the parents or guardians or godparents; thirdly, that one godfather and one godmother are to be sufficient where it is not convenient to have a second godfather or godmother according to the sex of the child; fourthly, a change in the qualification of godparents; fifthly, that the minister must satisfy himself that a child has not been baptised, but need not ask the specific question before the service of public baptism.
Of these, the change in the qualification of godparents was the one controversial issue in the Church Assembly. The amendment proposed represents a relaxation of the existing law, which is extremely rigorous. The rubric in the Book of Common Prayer does not lay down any qualification for those chosen

1459
to stand as godparents, but the latter part of Canon 29 of the Canons of 1603 requires that no one should be a godparent who has not received the Holy Communion.
There can be no doubt that at the time when the canon and rubric were drawn up it was intended that godparents must be communicant members of the Church of England and none other. The requirement still stands, but with the legal recognition of other denominations the practice has grown up of the minister exercising his discretion in particular cases, although it is usual to insist on at least one godparent being a communicant member of the Church of England. To meet this situation the present form of Canon B.23 has evolved under which godparents must be baptised and confirmed but the minister has power to dispense with the requirements of confirmation. Thus all godparents must be Christian but, at the discretion of the minister, they need not be members of the Church of England.
While the Measure was under discussion the House of Clergy accepted the present form of words in lines 26 to 33 on page 2, rejecting an amendment to replace "confirmed" by words requiring the person to be an actual communicant. The House of Laity, on the other hand, accepted an amendment widening the qualification to admit baptised and communicant members of any church. The House of Bishops, confronted with two different versions, chose baptism and confirmation coupled with the minister's power of dispensation as being the most workable in existing circumstances. The question of the admission to Communion of non-Anglicans who are communicants in their own churches is under discussion, and until this discussion has been concluded the Bishops felt it was wise to maintain the status quo and to leave the matter to the Standing Canon Law Commission to keep the situation under review. The Bishops' decision was challenged in the Assembly at the stage of final approval on the ground that it was unjustified in this œcumenical age, but on a division the motion for final approval was carried by 283 votes to 58.
In another place the Bishops' decision was criticised as discriminating in favour of Roman Catholics and the Orthodox
1460
Churches and against the Free Churches. This argument is based on the fact that, like the Church of England, the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches both practise episcopal confirmation. It is further argued that it is the custom in the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox Churches to confirm children at a very tender age. The whole question hinges on the meaning of the word "confirmed". Since Clause 3 of the Measure substitutes a new rubric for that appearing at the beginning of the Service of Baptism of Infants in the Book of Common Prayer, the word "confirmed" would have the meaning normally ascribed to it in that Book. There has been no case in the courts on this particular point, but I am advised that the generally accepted opinion is that it must mean confirmed according to the rites in this Book. Consequently, not only Free Churchmen but also Roman Catholics and members of the Orthodox Churches are excluded save in so far as the discretion of the minister permits and the Bishops, in acting as they did, did so in every confidence that the dispensing power of the minister would generally be exercised wisely and with charity.
Thirdly, Clause 4 deals with certain difficulties which arise when two Holy Days coincide and when, for instance, there are more than 25 Sundays after Trinity. The present Tables in the Book of Common Prayer make no provision for meeting them, and Clause 4 of the Measure gives rower to the Convocations and the Church Assembly to approve new Tables.
Finally, Clause 5 deals with the use of the Burial Service in the case of those who commit suicide. The Burial Laws Amendment Act 1880 relaxed what was, in effect, a prohibition in the rubric at the beginning of the Burial Service against Christian burial in cases where the coroner's verdict was felo-de-se. The Act provides that while the Burial Service may not be used, a service consisting of prayers taken from the Book of Common Prayer and portions from Holy Scripture could be used. A new Burial Service containing prayers not now in the Book of Common Prayer is under consideration, under the procedure laid down in the Prayer Book (Alternative and Other Services) Measure, and it is necessary to remove the limiting words

1461
in the Burial Laws Amendment Act. My Lords, I hope that I have said enough to commend this Measure for your Lordships' approval. I beg to move.
Moved, That this House do direct that, in accordance with the Church of England Assembly (Powers) Act 1919, the Prayer Book (Further Provisions) (No. 2) Measure be presented to Her Majesty for the Royal Assent. (The Lord Bishop of Worcester.)
BARONESS SUMMERSKILL: My Lords, may I ask the right reverend Prelate a question? Am I now to understand from what he has said that the proposal means that in future a woman will be able to take prayers without being ordained; and am I to understand that she would do this without remuneration?
THE LORD BISHOP OF WORCESTER: My Lords, I think that it is to make perfectly legal what is already done by many of your Lordships in this House, namely, to read Lessons and to take prayers in Church. It also applies to women, and, of course, no fee will be paid to them.
3.12 p.m.
LORD SANDFORD: My Lords, I am sure that we are all grateful to the right reverend Prelate for that comprehensive statement about this Measure, and we welcome the changes which it makes in the law, not the least because it draws to a close what must have been for the Church Assembly the extremely tedious business of Canon Law revision. I think there is a special welcome for the Measures relating to baptism. I am sure that both sides of the House would agree that the important thing these days is to secure at baptism that the child who is being baptised is brought up in the Christian faith and practice, and that compared to that the particular denominational brand of the Christian faith is of much less importance. I should think, too, that it is a great relief to those of your Lordships who, unlike me, are laymen, that you no longer stand in peril of prosecution whenever you read the Lessons at Matins and at Evening Prayer. The only question I have for the right reverend Prelate—a theological one, perhaps—is whether we can assume that this Measure expunges all past offences in this matter.
3.14 p.m.
LORD SOPER: My Lords, I hope that your Lordships' House will not regard my speaking on this matter as an impertinence on the part of a Methodist; but if at the moment I take but an academic interest in these affairs, it may be that in the not too distant future I shall be taking a more practical part in them, if indeed the conversations between the Methodists and the Anglicans come to fruition. I am not particularly interested in some of these provisions. Indeed, it is perhaps a somewhat paradoxical reflection that this must be a Christian House if we are to take any cognisance of them. I am not concerned particularly with the question of godparents. It has always seemed to me that a godparent can fulfil his obligations only by ignoring a great many of them; otherwise he is involved in an intrusion into the family circle to which he is not entitled.
But it is, to me, a matter of great satisfaction that the first provision in, this Measure opens wide opportunities to laymen at a time when the recognised cloth is under some sort of suspicion in certain quarters. There is a need, as we have found in the Methodist Church by the appointment of our local preachers, for this widening of the opportunity of the communication of the Gospel and of the Christian truths in terms which are acceptable to those who might be resistant to the ecclesiastical approach. This can be overdone and it can be overstated; yet if this is a call to laymen within the Church of England—and laywomen, too—to take this opportunity to fulfil the obligaticns of a ministry of all the talents, then], for one, regard it as a very great Measure offering great hope in the days to come. Therefore I support it with great enthusiasm.
LORD MORTON OF HENRYTDN: My Lords, I should be interested to mow whether I have grievously sinned, because, as an elder of the Church of Scotland, I have on several occatiions taken on the post of godfather to a Church of England child.
THE LORD BISHOP OF WORCESTER: My Lords, may I reply that if this Measure is passed it will now make Jour Lordships' past offences perfectly logal. It will be a great relief to me, because my own godfather was a Methodist and

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died a Methodist, and in my old age I should like to feel that I had a legal godfather.
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

DRAFT SOUTHERN RHODESIA ACT 1965 (CONTINUATION) ORDER 1968
3.15 p.m.
LORD SHEPHERD: My Lords, I beg to move that the Draft Southern Rhodesia Act 1965 (Continuation) Order 1968 be approved. I believe that it is the general wish of the House that a full debate on Rhodesia should be held at an appropriate moment. As my noble friend the Leader of the House told your Lordships last Wednesday, the Government will seek to facilitate any such debate whenever the House wishes, and indeed we should welcome it. But, if I may borrow a phrase which was used last week by the noble Marquess, Lord Salisbury, I doubt whether it would be in accordance with our usual practice to raise a full debate on the whole subject of Rhodesia on such a comparatively narrow aspect as the Continuation Order. Therefore, I do not intend to say anything at this stage on the general problem of Rhodesia, and will confine my remarks to the Order itself.
Your Lordships will be aware that Section 2 of the Southern Rhodesia Act 1965 has to be continued in force from year to year. It is necessary at this stage to extend it for a further year. I ask the House to permit this Order to be approved. My Lords, I beg to move.
Moved, That the Draft Southern Rhodesia Act 1965 (Continuation) Order 1968, be approved.—(Lord Shepherd.)
VISCOUNT DILHORNE: My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that this would be an inappropriate occasion on which to debate the whole question of Rhodesia. I hope that, although we extend this Order to-day, in fact it will not continue to operate for the whole of another year. I do not think one ought to say anything at all about the Rhodesian question. I welcome the noble Lord's assurance that facilities will be given for a debate whenever it is thought that a suitable moment has arrived.
LORD BYERS: My Lords, I should like to follow the example of the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, and agree that we should merely support formally this Motion to-day. We shall, however, want an opportunity at an appropriate moment to put forward to the House our views on the recent "Fearless" proposals, which the House must know are not acceptable to us.
LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURY: My Lords, as one who has consistently opposed the policy on Rhodesia I must nevertheless agree that this is not the moment to discuss the Rhodesian question. However, I should not like it to be assumed that, if one takes no action, one is changing one's views and supporting this Order.
LORD BARNBY: My Lords, as one of those who opposed the original Order, and while agreeing with the propriety of the usual channels that there should not be a debate or a Division upon it, I cannot miss the opportunity to try to give in two or three minutes the reasons why it would seem that this Order is not likely to help matters along. After the brutal treatment by Russia of Czechoslovakia, there is in all quarters a strong desire to avoid any extension of disorder in Africa, and I am sure that it is unlikely that the continuance of what this Order aims at is going to bring any help to the Africans in Rhodesia. It is hypocrisy to pretend that this increases the aspirations of the Africans. Anybody who knows Africa, who has travelled the country, recognises that the Africans want employment much more than anything else. This Order is not going to help, and it is my intense hope, as it is that of everybody else, that the discussions which have taken place will be continued until they arrive at an effective decision.
LORD MILVERTON: My Lords, I also agree that this is no time for a debate on Rhodesia. But I felt, as one of those who opposed sanctions from the very beginning and who has not lost that antipathy to this method of dealing with the situation, that I could not let this Motion pass without placing on record that my views have only been encouraged by the passage of time, and that I am still entirely opposed to sanctions in any shape or form. That is all I wish to say now.
LORD BROCKWAY: My Lords, as a dissident on these Benches from the policy of Her Majesty's Government I just want to say that I shall refrain from making any comment on the last two speeches which have been made. But I hope that very soon we shall have a full opportunity to discuss the Rhodesian issue in this House.
On Question, Motion agreed to.

GAMING BILL
  RESTRICTIVE TRADE PRACTICES BILL
  Returned from the Commons, with the Amendments agreed to.
  NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons, agreed to with Amendments; the said Amendments considered and agreed to.
  COVENT GARDEN MARKET BILL
  Brought from the Commons; read 1a, and referred to the Examiners.