§ 2.47 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state the cost to date of the "Beira Patrol", and what number of personnel is engaged in the operation.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF PUBLIC BUILDING AND WORKS (LORD WINTERBOTTOM)My Lords, about £1.25 million in terms of additional cost; in terms of personnel, approximately 650.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, in view of this expense, and since the Prime Minister is credited with having repeatedly stated that force would not be used against Rhodesia except in the case of internal disorder, would not effective action imply the use of force? Secondly, because it is well known that this operation is repugnant to Portugal, does it not suggest that its continuance reflects an undesirable effect on our relationship with a fellow member of NATO, and that therefore the operation should be run down?
§ LORD WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, this operation is being carried out in 1340 accordance with a resolution of the Security Council of the United Nations of April, 1966. It is for this reason that Her Majesty's Government are carrying out this patrol.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, as Her Majesty's Government originally went to the United Nations and asked to be allowed to use this force, it is not possible to hide behind that resolution now. Therefore, why do Her Majesty's Government continue to maintain this patrol and at the same time keep repeating that they rule out the use of force in the case of the Rhodesian dispute? Does not the noble Lord agree that the two things do not go together?
§ LORD WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, this is a necessary operation which, although not completely successful, has been partially successful in bringing the Rhodesians to the negotiating table. It is a necessary part of the whole operation against the illegal régime.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, that does not answer the question as to whether Her Majesty's Government are prepared to use force although they say that they will not do so.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, does not the fact that we are members of NATO override any consideration regarding the United Nations as affeoting our responsibility?
§ LORD WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the present situation is not unhopeful, and I should not like to say anything to-day that would make the situation more difficult.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, does the figure which we have been given include the cost of maintaining a R.A.F. detachment in North West Madagascar? If it does, would the noble Lord agree that a tribute should be paid from this House to the Malagasy Government for their co-operation in this matter and for their assistance in granting facilities at Majunga? Also, should not appreciation be expressed to members of the provincial Government of Majunga for the hospitality they are extending, most freely I understand, to all the members of the R.A.F. there?
§ LORD WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite correct. The figures include the R.A.F. contingent, and I think the whole House will agree with the noble Lord that our thanks are due to the Malagasy Government. If every member of the United Nations behaved with equal loyalty our situation would be somewhat improved.