§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, if I may I will now read the other Statement which is being made by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in another place about the merger of the Foreign Office and the Commonwealth Office. It reads as follows:
"On March 15 my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced the intention of Her Majesty's Government to bring about the amalgamation of the Foreign Office and the Commonwealth Office and in a Statement on March 28 he explained to the House the reasons for this.
"It was announced on September 18 that the new Office would be called the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and that it would come into being on October 17 this year.
"This change will take effect from to-morrow and for the first time in modern history the external affairs of this country will be in the charge of one Secretary of State and one Department. For good historical and political reasons, we have been the only country in the world to maintain separate Foreign and Commonwealth Offices. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said in April the time has now come to amalgamate these two Departments. We shall continue to do everything possible to promote good relationships with the world community, whether through the United Nations or with individual countries and groups of countries. We shall continue to play our full part as a member of the Commonwealth and to maintain our close association with other Commonwealth Governments. In 1369 forming the new Office we have made certain that the interests of the dependent territories will receive the close and sympathetic attention which our responsibility for them requires.
"We have not merely put the two existing Departments together: we have examined the tasks of both and constructed a new Office to perform those tasks.
"In the planning of the merger, and in the work of both Departments over many years, the country is greatly indebted to the devotion, industry and skill of its permanent civil servants.
"The handling, under Parliament, of the external affairs of this country over the years has called for sensitive judgment, continuous hard work in numerous fields and the initiation of, and response to, peaceful change—all this in a restless and sometimes violent world. It is in this progressive spirit that this new Department of State will meet the challenge of the future."
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, the House will be obliged to the noble Lord the Leader of the House for repeating that Statement. I must say that ever since some years ago I was a High Commissioner in a Commonwealth country, I have always felt that this amalgamation was the right thing to do—not in any way in a spirit of criticism of the Commonwealth Relations Office, as it then was, but because I thought the division between these two different Departments did not lead to efficiency. I do not think that the Commonwealth as a whole will regret this step; although I think they will wish to be assured that the service they get from the new Department will be as good as if not better than that from the Commonwealth Office. The noble Lord mentioned in the Statement that there is going to be some special attention paid to the dependent territories. May I ask him exactly what form that will take? Finally, may I ask whether he could give us any indication of how many Ministers are likely to be in this new Department? In the two old Departments, I think there must have been something approaching double figures.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, poised as I am between the Minister of 1370 State for Foreign Affairs and the Minister of State for Commonwealth Affairs, I would hesitate to speculate on how many Ministers there will be and who will occupy these posts. Here again no doubt time will shortly show. But on tilt particular point of the dependent territories—I know that noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Shepherd, have worked manfully in this area and shown great interest—in order to maintain a body corpus of specialised knowledge of the problems of dependent territories, and to ensure that the welfare and interests of their inhabitants and our responsibilities for those territories are taken into account in our external policy, special arrangements are being made; and these are explained quite fully in the White Paper. In fact, there will be a special branch, or department, or division which will look after dependent territories which are close together, even though in other areas there will be geographical departments. So very special attention has been paid to that.
I am grateful that the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, sees this as an inevitable and rightful development. I assure him that the whole object is to produce a greater and more efficient set-up. For instance, relations with High Commissioners will be just as good; in some ways they may be made easier. High Commissioners will still retain certain special rights, and they may find it a simpler operation to liaise with Her Majesty's Government than in the past.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, we, too, welcome this change very much. I am sure that it could—and I hope that it will—lead to greater efficiency. May I ask the noble Lord whether the White Paper will show the exact division of responsibility within the new Department regarding the different aspects of its work? If not, perhaps that could be done at some time for the benefit of Members of the House.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, this White Paper is now in the Printed Paper Office. It explains in a good deal of detail what the arrangements will built may be that it does not give all the answers, but obviously, if the noble Lord or Members of your Lordships' House want further information on organisation, an opportunity can be found to provide it on some other occasion, either in answer 1371 to Questions, or perhaps in a debate on the Queen's Speech or on foreign affairs.
May I also refer to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Byers, in relation to the earlier Statement? There have been quite significant savings. For instance, in the merger the number of Permanent and Deputy Under-Secretaries has been reduced by 25 per cent. and there has been a significant reduction at Assistant Under-Secretary level. Over 100 posts have been saved in the first phase of the merger, in addition to the 398 previously saved at home since the unified Diplomatic Service was set up in 1965. There is also the further investigation, the Duncan Inquiry, into the Foreign Service.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, I was proposing to express the hope that a place would be found for the services of Mr. George Thomson in the Government, but in the light of the noble Lord's previous answer perhaps I had better not press the point.
§ LORD GLENDEVONMy Lords, may I join briefly in the welcome of this proposal, having myself served in both Departments as a Minister? Does not the Leader of the House agree that the best result will be that from now on we shall be able to have the best men available in the most important capitals without the necessity for cross-posting, which sometimes gave rise to rather unhappy comparisons of status?
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, again I am much obliged to the noble Lord. This is an example of the advantages that will flow from this combined arrangement. It will take a little while to settle down, but I am sure that the noble Lord, who has had great experience in this field, is right in his judgment. I would only say to the noble Lord, Lord Byers (all your Lordships are being extraordinarily kind and tactful), that I understand that the services of my right honourable friend Mr. George Thomson, certainly during this crucial period in relation to Rhodesia, will not be lost.