HL Deb 08 October 1968 vol 296 cc970-2
LORD MOYNE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government the cost of demolishing the old houses built into the ruins of the West Front of the Abbey at Bury St. Edmunds and of concreting the remaining masses of flint rubble to uphold the arches, as now proposed by the Ministry of Works, and the cost of instead doing the necessary repairs to keep these interesting old houses in a habitable condition.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF PUBLIC BUILDING AND WORKS (LORD WINTERBOTTOM)

My Lords, the cost of unpicking and consolidating the buried fabric is roughly estimated at £38,000. I cannot give any estimate of the cost of repairs and any necessary alterations to the added buildings since this work would not be the responsibility of the Government.

LORD MOYNE

My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for his reply. Since so many learned bodies and perceptive individuals, such as his colleague the noble Lord, Lord kennet, have spoken out for the preservation of these houses, would he consider advising as long a reprieve as possible for discussions to be pursued and for the implementation of Miss Crowe's report on landscaping; and, in the meanwhile, out of consideration for the tenants, some first-aid repairs, since none has, I believe, been done by their landlords for upwards of 12 years?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, as regards the second half of the noble Lord's supplementary question, it is not the responsibility of my Ministry or my noble friend's Ministry to see about these repairs; it is the responsibility of the local authority. Regarding a postponement, no decision has been taker, but my own Minister and my right honourable friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government are having discussions at this moment about the future of this great historic monument.

LORD WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, in view of my noble friend's statement that no steps have been taken at this stage, I should like, subject to your Lordships' permission, to ask him two questions. Would he call the Minister's attention to the fact that a number of eminent and knowledgeable people, as well as a number of distinguished societies, are opposed to the suggestion that the houses should be unpicked, which would mean their demolition, in order to reveal more ruins of the former Abbey when there are already substantial ruins to be seen? Secondly, would my noble friend also inform the Minister concerned that the Cathedral at Bury St. Edmunds (perhaps I ought to inform your Lordships that I am a member of that congregation) is a developing cathedral and in time could well use the houses for the purpose of carrying on the social and community work of the Cathedral?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, in answer to the first point in my noble friend's supplementary question, may I say that there is a body of equally distinguished gentlemen who hold contrary views? As regards the second point, I will bear his suggestion in mind.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, did I understand the noble Lord to say that because it is not his responsibility to consider repairing the old houses he could not give an estimate of what the cost of doing that would be? Could he not possibly find out? I should have thought that he or his Department might be in a position to know whether it would be cheaper to restore the old houses than to demolish them.

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I think that the question of cost is irrelevant. We have to decide what is the best way to treat this very magnificent West Front of the former pilgrimage Abbey.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he can say what is the view of the Royal Fine Art Commission about this proposed demolition?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I know no more than what I read in the papers. They are opposed to this, but whether their view is of particular relevance I am not quite sure.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, was not the whole purpose of setting up the Royal Fine Art Commission, and its support by successive Governments, precisely that it was thought that on a question of this nature its views were of the greatest possible importance?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, there are two very eminent bodies considering this problem, the Historic Buildings Council, which is opposed to unpicking, and the Ancient Monuments Board, which believes that unpicking may be the correct policy. One can collect voices on this subject from far and wide and they will all differ. In my view it is the two bodies responsible which will have to reach a decision.