HL Deb 07 October 1968 vol 296 cc811-5

3.58 p.m.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend Lord Stonham, for reasons which we all regret, may I now reply to the Question of which my noble friend Lord Brockway has given Private Notice?

I am sure that the whole of your Lordships' House will deplore the outbreaks of violence in Northern Ireland. My noble friend may have in mind Section 75 of the Government of Ireland Act, which reserves the supreme authority of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, but your Lordships will appreciate that the maintenance of law and order is, under that Act, a matter for which the Parliament and Government of Northern Ireland are the responsible authorities. It would not accord with the constitutional relationships for Her Majesty's Government to order an inquiry into the disturbances, but my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has invited the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland to visit him for the purpose of discussions.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while appreciating that reply, and especially the invitation which the Prime Minister has sent to the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland for discussion, may I ask my noble and learned friend this question? Is it not the case that Section 75 of the Government of Ireland Act gives the Parliament of Westminster and our Government overriding authority in these matters? And is he aware that many of us feel it desirable that that authority should be exerted in this instance, not only because of the frightening events of the week-end but because of their potential danger for the future in Northern Ireland unless political and religious discrimination are ended?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, law and order in Northern Ireland is, under the Act, a matter specifically for the Government of Northern Ireland. It is not a reserved matter. Section 75, as I read it, relates really to the ultimate authority, not of our Government but of our Parliament. There is, of course, nothing to stop Parliament from amending, or I suppose, for that matter, revoking, the Government of Ireland Act but I would suggest that, in these circumstances, the proper way to deal with this matter is to allow discussions to take place between the two Prime Ministers.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, may I ask the noble and learned Lord whether he will confirm a report which I, and no doubt other noble Lords, have seen in the evening newspapers to-day, that the Prime Minister has also asked the Home Secretary to hold an inquiry?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I am quite unable to confirm that. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary is to receive reports from honourable Members in another place and no doubt he will consider those and consider whether or not he should forward those reports to the Government of Northern Ireland.

LORD BYERS

My Lords, while accepting the fact that the Government of Northern Ireland is responsible for law and order I would ask: is it not the fact that this Parliament ought to be concerned with the denial of civil rights to citizens of the United Kingdom? When these talks take place is it not possible to appoint a Commission of Inquiry into the whole question of political gerrymandering, denial of civil rights and the injustices and grievances under which people are suffering?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I think we ought to leave that until discussions have taken place between the two Prime Ministers.

LORD BYERS

My Lords, the noble and learned Lord will accept that there has now been considerable delay and we always gel the reply that we had better leave it until after discussions. The delay is really becoming quite intolerable.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, there has been very little delay in this particular case.

LORD RATHCAVAN

My Lords, may I ask the noble and learned Lord whether he is aware that the present Prime Minister of Northern Ireland has been working continuously to better community relations in that Province, and with considerable success? In view of that, I am glad to hear what the noble and learned Lord has said, namely, that there are to be discussions now between the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I think I had better not express any opinion on behalf of the Government on the conduct of the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland. Discussions have, taken place before, but my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has moved quickly. He has already invited the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland to visit him for this purpose.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, is there not a European Commission on Human Rights to which we have adhered on behalf of the whole of the United Kingdom, and therefore including Ulster? I am not making any suggestion that it should be anything but a further resort.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I am afraid that I should hive to have notice of any question of the application of the Commission on Human Rights to this particular matter.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I ask my noble and learned friend whether he is aware that I appreciate that this is only a symptom of a deeper issue, and may I give notice that at the first opportunity I shall seek to raise the deeper issue to which he has made reference?