LORD NUNBURNHOLMEhad given Notice of his intention to ask the second Question which stood in his name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many clubs are contravening the existing gaming laws, and what steps are being taken by the police to prosecute them.]
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, may I ask a further supplementary on my first Question? I understand that the Nigerians find great difficulty in digesting milk powder, and that unless there is supervision in its mixing and distribution they look on it as poison. Another point that I should like—
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHACKLETON)My Lords, may I interrupt the noble Lord? He really ought not now to return to the first Question. He was called for the purpose of putting his second Question, and if another Member of your Lordships' House had put a further question he really would have been considered out of Order. Also, if I may say so with respect, the noble Lord was not asking a question. So may I respectfully suggest to him that he may care to proceed to his second Question?
LORD NUNBURNHOLMEMy Lords, I apologise to the House. I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ BARONESS SEROTAMy Lords, the extent of the contravention of the gaming laws can be established only on the basis of cases brought before the courts. Fifty-eight prosecutions have so far been brought by the Metropolitan Police this year. There have been thirty-five convictions; three cases were dismissed and are the subject of appeals, three have been adjourned sine die, and seventeen await hearing.
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: No!
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: No!
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, the right reverend Prelate should be seeking information. Perhaps he could phrase his question in an interrogative form designed to elicit that information.
THE Loan BISHOP OF CHESTERMy Lords, may I ask whether the noble Baroness recollects some words of the noble Lord. Lord Stonham, on August 1 apropos this point, when he said that the club proprietors should "sweat this one out and have their gaming according to the law"? Will the noble Baroness ensure that the "sweating" process is given some encouragement?
§ BARONESS SEROTAMy Lords, unfortunately I was not present to hear my noble friend Lord Stonham make the particular remark of which the right reverend Prelate has just reminded us. I must apologise for the absence of my noble friend Lord Stonham, who is out of London opening a new borstal. I shall draw his attention to the remarks of the right reverend Prelate and suggest that his Turkish bath idea might be considered.
§ LORD OAKSHOTTMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say whether she regards 58 prosecutions in a little over ten months of the present year as a reasonably good sign of the enforcement of the present gaming laws?
§ BARONESS SEROTAMy Lords, my figures refer to the London area where, of course, there is the highest concentra 1132 tion of these clubs. I would remind the noble Lord that the Home Secretary himself has no power to instruct chief constables on this question of law enforcement. But he is satisfied that in what is regarded on all sides of the House as the present unsatisfactory state of the law, pending the introduction of new legislation which recently passed through both Houses, matters are proceeding as they should be.