§ 3.9 p.m.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the 6⅔ per cent. increase in the value of the stamp to be affixed to a postcard, if it is to have a reasonable chance of delivery the day following posting, is in accordance with their prices and incomes policy and repeated calls for moderation.]
563§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, under the old service postcards stamped 3d. could be, and quite often were, deferred in favour of letters stamped 4d. Only those stamped 4d. were not subject to delay, so that the increase to the sender wanting reasonable certainty of delivery the next day is ld. and not 2d. Postcards, in practice, cost nearly as much to handle as letters, and last year the service lost £1.3 million on an income of £4.5 million. Users of this service were, in effect, being subsidised by users of the letter post, and it seemed a not immoderate step to bring this situation to an end.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord. If his reply refers to the theory, my question reflects the practice. Is he not aware—
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, would the noble Lord start again, because I cannot hear.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, I started off by thanking the noble Lord for his reply. If his reply refers to the theory, my Question reflects the practice. It is within the experience of all of us that it was only on the rarest occasions that distinction was made in the handling of postcards. If my figure of 66⅔ per cent. is not correct, will the noble Lord tell me what the figure is, because I doubt whether that 25 per cent., as he quoted, is in fact true.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, an increase of ld. on 3d. is 33⅓ per cent.
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord when he last put a 4d. stamp on a postcard before the recent increases came into effect?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, when I inquired whether a postcard would be delivered the next day, I was advised that the best way was to put a 4d. stamp on it or write a letter.
§ LORD FERRIERMy Lords, in Scotland the humble postcard was treated as first-class mail even though it bore a id. stamp—in fact the word "postcard" is used as a verb there. As it would be the simplest of operations to sort postcards as first-class mail, would the noble Lord's right honourable friend reconsider the question, certainly as re 564 gards Scotland, of postcards being treated as first-class mail although they bear a 4d. stamp?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, I think my right honourable friend will take note of what the noble Lord has said.
§ VISCOUNT ECCLESMy Lords, may I ask how it is possible to cost the postcard service apart from the letter service? The noble Lord said that the postcard service cost £.41 million. How does the noble Lord arrive at such a figure?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, the Post Office, funnily enough, keeps accounts. it knows exactly how many postcards are posted, and I think last year the number was 350 million. That brought in a sum of about £4½, million. The Post Office also knows what the loss was.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, in view of the assurance that the noble Lord gave with regard to proper accounting in the Post Office, would he feel inclined to give some enlightenment on the formidable percentage increases assumed by the Post Office which bring in such remonstrances from both Houses of Parliament? They are so different from the much smaller, but probably justified, advances so strongly resisted elsewhere.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, there have been three increases in Post Office charges since 1940. In 1940 a postcard required a 2d. stamp; to-day, in 1968, the price is 4d. That is a 100 per cent. increase.
§ LORD AIREDALEMy Lords, is not the position with regard to the recent changes this: that, whereas with letters you now pay an extra Id. in order to retain the excellent first-class service which you used to get for 4d., with postcards you pay a compulsory extra ld. with no guarantee of receiving the first-class service that you used to get with postcards?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, I hope it is now becoming clear to noble Lords that we have two kinds of postage, first-class and second-class. If the noble Lord wants his postcard to go first-class he puts a 5d. stamp on it; if he wants it to go second-class and a little more slowly, he puts a 4d. stamp on it.
THE EARL OF MANSFIELDMy Lords, have Her Majesty's Government ever taken into account the amount of time, and therefore money, that will be wasted through Post Office staff having to sort the two different kinds of mail? All we get now is not a fast service but the difference between slow and slower.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, the point is that the Postmaster-General has taken into account all these things—and I hope that the noble Earl will not continue to smile while I am answering what I thought was a serious question. The Postmaster General is aware of the difficulty, particularly at peak hours and during the evening and early morning periods, when postmen are hard-pressed to do the sorting. That is why an attempt is made at a more even distribution of the sorting periods.
THE EARL OF MANSFIELDMy Lords, do the noble Lord and Her Majesty's Government realise that the recent changes in Post Office administration can be smiled at only inasmuch as they merely represent a rather bad joke?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, before any further Questions are put down noble Lords might consult the Post Office Guide, which has fewer than 600 pages. They will then know the facts of life, and may be inclined to restrain themselves from putting down any further Questions.
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHMy Lords, would the noble Lord say whether, in order to avoid this pressure at certain times, it would not be better to have letters posted at a certain time going for less money?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, the noble Baroness's noble friend Lord Inglewood put that Question down two days ago, and I answered it.
§ LORD ERROLL OF HALEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether there is any limitation on the size of a postcard which may be sent for 4d.?
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, there is not now; but there was until the two-tier system started. If the noble Lord will look in his small postage stamp book he will see mentioned there the size of the postcard.