§ 2.45 p.m.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the continually increasing demands on police manpower in the large cities, they will reconsider the recent decision to limit the strength of these forces to numbers well under their approved establishments.]
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, the extent to which police forces in England and Wales, whether county, county borough, or combined, are able to increase their strength during the current year is determined by quotas related to their deficiencies in establishments. Those with the highest percentage deficiencies are given the greatest margins of increase. It would be possible, within Her Majesty's Government's policy of restraining the growth of public expenditure in the national interest, to allow large city forces unrestricted recruiting only by making equivalent savings elsewhere in rural forces or in smaller boroughs, some of them with equally high percentage deficiencies.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for that reply. Is is aware that only last week the Council of the Police 1110 Federation told the Home Secretary that they regarded this as a false economy? Is he further aware that there have recently been disturbing signs of further outbreaks pointing to what one might call mob rule, and that as the Glasgow police are nearly 1,000 under strength and London nearly 6,000 his Answer will not give much happiness to the people who have law and order at heart?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I am aware that representations have been made by some forces, but forces; with the greatest deficiencies can recruit up to 2 per cent. of their strength, and so on down the scale. I am not aware of any situation in this country arising or likely to arise with which the police cannot cope. I am also aware that since 1963 the police forces have been increased by over 10,000; civilians employed by the police force have increased in the last three years by nearly 5,000, and cadets, traffic wardens and others have increased proportionately, or more than proportionately. It would seem, therefore, that the basis of the difficulty lies not within the last three and a half years but in the period before that.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, the difficulty has of course existed for a long time. Would Her Majesty's Government reconsider whether any change is necessary in their present policy as regards the Metropolitan Police, because there are demonstrations virtually every Sunday. There were at least four last Sunday, which had to be kept apart because they were hostile to each other. It was known that one demonstration was going to be unruly, and it was unruly. Am I right in thinking that during the summer weekend leave for the Metropolitan Police is virtually non-existent?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, certainly the noble Lord is not right with regard to weekend leave of the Metropolitan Police as a whole. There are substantial deficiencies with regard to establishment in the Metropolitan Police, and they have almost 50 per cent. of the total increase in recruitment this, year. With regard to the incidents to which the noble Lord refers, and which he himself witnessed, I think he will agree with me that they were more than competently and adequately dealt with by the Metropolitan Police.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, I do not want it to be thought that I took the view that the police were handling the demonstrators other than well. They did a superb job. What I was worried about was their weekend leave.