§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what reductions have been made by local education authorities in the number of part-time married women teachers employed by them as a result of economies forced on them by Government action and what is the estimated financial saving.]
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, my right honourable friend has no evidence that the total number of part-time married women teachers has been reduced. He is aware that some authorities are recruiting fewer part-time teachers than they might have done but for the Government's economy measures, but it is not yet clear whether the effect will be that the total number of part-time teachers employed will fall, or merely that its rate of growth will be diminished. In any case the total number of teachers, full-time and part-time together, is likely to go on increasing.
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I am grateful for that Answer. Is the noble Baroness aware that, in an effort to save money, certain local education authorities are not recruiting any more part-time married teachers for the forthcoming year, and that considerable sums of money are involved? Is this not a disastrous result of the economy measures?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that in this matter the local education authorities are masters of their own affairs. Government 674 grants to local authorities have not been cut. The local authorities have been asked to achieve economies in expenditure in whatever way they see fit. If the noble Lord feels that it would be useful to do so, I shall be happy to convey some of this information to my right honourable friend.
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that, even without any improvement, expenditure in this field is rising at the rate of about 6 per cent. and that by restricting the rate to 3 per cent. the local authorities, since they have to make cuts somewhere, are forced to make them in the teaching profession? There are many authorities, including Surrey, who look to see a major saving achieved by cutting down on the employment of part-time teachers.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord will realise that I am not aware of the circumstances of each individual local education authority. Equally with the noble Lord, I would deplore any restriction in the number of teachers. One recognises that here the local education authorities have a problem which each must solve in its own way. The Government are hoping that they will not in any event restrict the number of teachers.
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, would the noble Baroness say whether it is a correct description of these teachers to describe them as "part-time married women"?
§ LORD BEAUMONT OF WHITLEYMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the campaigns to get married women back into education as part-time or full-time teachers met with considerable frustration in the period when they were launched. If there is to be this added restriction, it will not be easy to reactivate the flow when the economic cuts are over.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, the noble Lord may have specific examples of this; but of course there is still a great need for more teachers. The difficulty, as the noble Lord will be aware, is that there is no evenness of demand though-out the country. What my right honourable friend hopes is that the teachers will go to the places where they are needed. There will inevitably be some areas more 675 attractive than others and, naturally, in them there will be more people seeking positions as teachers than there are positions to fill. Totally, there is still a great need for teachers.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, can my noble friend confirm that there are now more teachers in schools than ever before, and also that there are now more student teachers in training than ever before?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that intervention. I am quite sure that he is correct. I cannot give particular figures; but I should be happy to pass on this valuable information to any noble Lord who wishes it.
§ BARONESS BROOKE OF YSTRAD-FELLTEMy Lords, would the noble Baroness convey to her right honourable friend the Secretary of State the absolute necessity for making a particular case for married women teachers; because, as the noble Lord has already said, it was not easy before to get them back into the profession? They are absolutely essential, as I am sure the noble Baroness is aware, if we are to reduce the sizes of classes. Will the noble Baroness be good enough to see that they are watched carefully and cherished, so that the number of teachers will not fall below the minimum that we require.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, I thank the noble Baroness. I can assure her not only that she has a friend at court in me, but that my right honourable friend is aware, from his own personal experience, of the problems of the teaching profession. My own newly acquired daughter-in-law is one of these part-time teachers—although she is not "part-time married".
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, can my noble friend tell the House how a married teacher moves a reluctant husband?
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, perhaps husbands of the newer generation are much more intelligent in their attitude.