HL Deb 21 March 1968 vol 290 cc689-92

3.47 p.m.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND (LORD HUGHES)

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself again into Committee on this Bill.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself again into Committee.—(Lord Hughes.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee, accordingly.

[The EARL OF LISTOWEL in the Chair.]

Clause 11 [Provisions supplementary to s. 9 in Scotland.]:

LORD HUGHES

Amendments Nos. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 19 are incidental to the new Schedule in Amendment No. 39. Perhaps the Committee will agree that these Amendments may be taken formally, as was the case with similar Amendments relating to England.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES

May I ask the noble Lord whether he would care to move Amendments Nos. 10 to 15 of Clause 11 en bloc?

LORD HUGHES

With the permission of the Committee I should be delighted to do so. I beg to move Amendments Nos. 10 to 15 en bloc.

Amendments moved—

Page 9, line 3, leave out ("states") and insert ("contains a statement")

Page 9, line 15, leave out ("states") and insert ("contains a statement")

Page 10, line 43, leave out ("it is stated in the notice") and insert ("the notice contains a statement")

Page 11, line 9, at end insert— ("( ) The provisions of Schedule (Transitional provisions relating to payments a under s. 9 in Scotland) to this Act (which contains transitional provisions for certain cases) shall have effect for the purposes of this section in its application to Scotland".)

Page 11, line 17, at end insert ("and")

Page 11, line 22, leave out paragraph (d). —(Lord Hughes.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 11, as amended, agreed to.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES

Clauses 12 to 17 have already been agreed to, and I shall therefore call Amendment No. 17A, to Clause 18.

Clause 18:

Termination in case of near relatives of deceased tenant. 1958 c. 71

18.—(1) Section 6(3) of the Agriculture Act 1958 shall not apply to a notice to qui[...] given to a tenant who has acquired right to the lease of an agricultural holding—

  1. (a) by virtue of section 16 of thy: Succession (Scotland) Act 1964, or
  2. (b) as a legatee by virtue of section 20 of the principal Scottish Act.
where he is a near relative of the deceased tenant from whom he has acquired right to that lease; and accordingly section 25(1) of the principal Scottish Act shall, subject to the provisions of this section, apply to such a notice.

(2) Notwithstanding section 26(1) of the principal Scottish Act (which provides for the Scottish Land Court consenting to the operation of a notice to quit in certain circumstances), where the said section 6(3) would apart from the provisions of this section apply to the notice, the Scottish Land Court shall consent under the said section 25(1) to the operation of a notice to quit given to such a near relative as is mentioned in the foregoing subsection— (a) if they are satisfied that the near relative has neither sufficient training in agriculture nor sufficient experience in the farming of land to enable him to farm the holding to which the notice relates with reasonable efficiency, and if it is stated in the notice that it is given by reason of the matter aforesaid, or

(7) In this section, "near relative" in relation to a deceased tenant of an agricultural holding means a surviving spouse, son or daughter, or adopted son or daughter, of that tenant.

(8) In the last foregoing subsection, the reference to an adopted son or daughter of a deceased tenant shall be construed as a reference to a son or daughter adopted by him (whether alone or jointly with any other person) in pursuance of an adoption order within the meaning of section 23(5) of the Succession (Scotland) Act 1964.

THE DUKE OF ATHOLL moved, in subsection (2), to leave out paragraph (a) and to insert instead: (a) if the near relative can not satisfy them that he has sufficient training in agriculture, sufficient experience in the type of farming suitable for the holding to which the notice relates and adequate financial resources for the efficient farming of the said holding and if it is stated in the notice that it is given by reason of any of the matters aforesaid, or ".

The noble Duke said: As I think we are only too well aware, Part III of this Bill was inserted in another place in the Committee stage, and the particular provision which I seek to alter, paragraph (a) of Clause 18(2), was inserted on Report stage in another place. I think it is fair to say that the position since 1958 up to now has been that when a tenant has died, at the end of the lease the Landlord could serve on his successor an incontestable notice to quit, which had to be upheld by the Land Court.

The object of Clauses 18, 19 and 20 is to allow a near relative to succeed to the tenancy, even if a landlord wishes to serve such a notice to quit, unless of course a tenant cannot fulfil one of the two provisions in Clause 18(2). My Amendment is designed to turn the first of these provisions around. Under Clause 18(2)(a) a landlord, if he wishes to serve a notice successfully on a tenant, has to show that the tenant has not had sufficient experience in agriculture or has not had sufficient training. The object of my Amendment is to make it necessary for the tenant to show that he has had sufficient training and experience.

One improvement my Amendment makes is that the tenant has to have sufficient experience in the right type of agriculture. I think this a very important point. I should not be happy, for instance, if I had a tenant whose sole experience in agriculture had been in connection with asparagus—farming in Norfolk. I cannot see that this would give a man the sort of training he would need for marginal upland farming. Therefore I think the type of farming as well as the actual experience should be taken into consideration.

The third thing this Amendment does is to provide that the tenant must have Sufficient financial resources to be able to farm the holding properly. I think this extremely important. We all know the way death duties can decimate an estate, particularly a fairly small estate where all the capital may probalbly be already in the farm. With the amount of death duties that the successor has to find, the farm may well not be farmed as efficiently and properly as one would like. In the interests of sound farming I think it essential that some financial limit should be put into this subsection, because I am sure that many heirs will try to continue farming the farms of their parents or relatives without having sufficient capital to do so, and that would be disastrous for the standard of farming in Scotland. After all it is an advantage to be able to inherit a tenancy and we want to make sure that, although it is possible for them to have this advantage, it is used in the best possible way.

I think that my Amendment has three advantages. First, it is easier to prove a positive than a negative, and it is easier for the tenant to show that he has had sufficent experience and training in farming than for the landlord to show that he has not. I might add that this seems to me only fair, since the tenant is gaining a great deal from this clause. Secondly, I think that the type of farming of which he has had experience should bear some relation to the sort of farming he is going to pursue on the holding he has inherited. Thirdly, it is a good thing that he should show he is financially able to start farming such a holding. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 16, line 23, leave out paragraph (a) and insert the said new paragraph.—(The Duke of Atholl.)

LORD HUGHES

I bee to move that the House do now resume for the purpose of hearing a Statement from the Leader of the House.

Moved, That the House do now resume.—(Lord Hughes.)

On Question, Motion agreed to, and House resumed accordingly.