HL Deb 06 March 1968 vol 289 cc1346-7

2.47 p.m.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which again stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they propose to introduce legislation to safeguard measures approved by the House of Commons from frustration by delay or defeat in the House of Lords.]

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHACKLETON)

My Lords, the inter-Party discussions on the reform of the House of Lords are continuing, and the date of the introduction of any legislation must depend on their progress.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, may I thank my noble friend for that Answer, and express the hope that the "head" ones will allow the "back" ones a word at some early and appropriate date?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, I wonder whether I may ask the noble Lord the Leader of the House, having regard to the number of times that the noble Lord, Lord Mitchison, has asked the same Question, whether the Government are considering introducing legislation to safeguard Lord Mitchison from delay, frustration and defeat?

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, may I ask Her Majesty's Government whether, when they are deciding what to do in this regard, they will consider the arguments that I addressed them on November 8 last for doing away with the legislative powers of this House altogether and restricting its function to that of a debating society, except as regards legal matters?

BARONESS GAITSKELL

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, as it has been demonstrated in the last two debates that this noble House is the last refuge of individual conscience and the last battleground for human rights, we should not instead freeze its vestigial and remaining powers as it does such a good job?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I do not think that any of those questions requires an answer. I certainly do not propose to comment on the performance of the House last week, which we all observed and on which interesting comments were made. Nor am I sure that I like the word "vestigial".

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, following upon this Question, may I ask Her Majesty's Government when they propose to introduce legislation to safeguard measures approved by the House of Lords from frustration by delay in the House of Commons?

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, as we play "Yo-yo" in this House by defeating the Government, and sending legislation back to the Commons, and then, when the Commons disagree with us and it comes back, agreeing with the Commons, and as this can happen only in the first four years of a Parliament and then, in the fifth year, the Tories can defeat us on major legislation, is it not now time that we had the reform of the House of Lords?

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that my Question is merely quoting an Election pledge, reaffirmed last April?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I am well aware of all the points which have been made, including the inability of anyone to frustrate my noble friend.