HL Deb 13 June 1968 vol 293 cc211-3
LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the results of research at Porton biological and chemical laboratories are made available to the Government of the U.S.A., which has not signed the Geneva Protocol, for the preparation of offensive weapons.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD CHALFONT)

My Lords, exchange of information with the United States takes place under the terms of the Technical Co-operation Programme, instituted in 1958, and of the Basic Standardisation Agreement of 1964. Details of the information exchanged are confidential.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, accepting that the purpose of Porton is defence, may I ask whether this does not require the production of offensive weapons so that the effectiveness of the defence may be tested'? In this process, have not British chemists produced the active ingredients of the most toxic nerve gases and V-agents? Is not this information supplied to the United States Government which, unlike us, has declined to accept the Geneva Protocol and is using our research work for offensive purposes to which we are opposed?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, so far as the V agents are concerned, as I have said, details of information exchanged with the United States are confidential and I cannot go into that any further. So far as the work that is being done at Porton is concerned, certainly what goes on there is designed to produce defences against these toxic agents. The way in which that is done is, again, a confidential matter which I cannot at this moment discuss in your Lordships' House. As to the United States' position on chemical and biological weapons, we know that the United States is not a party to the 1925 Geneva Protocol whereas we are: but the position of the United States is very similar to our own. The noble Lord will recall that many signatories of the 1925 Protocol, including the United Kingdom and the Soviet Union, reserved the right to use these weapons in retaliation for their use against them. That is substantially the position of the United States of America. But, as I have said, I cannot give the noble Lord any details of the information which we exchange with the Americans.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I am sorry to press this matter with the noble Lord, but there is deep feeling about it in the country. Does not the United States now have large stockpiles of offensive agents as a direct result of British research? Is it now not using these nerve gases in Vietnam where there is considerable evidence that they have been fatal? Were we responsible—and I have asked this in a letter—for providing the gases used in the French student demonstrations which have led to blindness among its victims?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am afraid I have no detailed information on the type of agent that was used in the French riots. The only agent of this kind of which we have immediate knowledge is the C.S. gas. That is a riot control agent, as the noble Lord will know, and not a chemical warfare agent, and therefore information about it is freely exchanged between countries. We have no exclusive rights in respect of this C.S. gas or any other riot control agent. So far as the United States' position is concerned, of course I cannot answer for the United States Government, either in terms of what stockpiles they have or how they use them: nor—I fear I have to say it again—can I give details of the information which is exchanged between us.

LORD ROWLEY

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether the question of prohibiting the production of biological and chemical weapons or agents is on the agenda of the Geneva Disarmament Conference?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, we have had this matter on the agenda at the Geneva Disarmament Conference, and the position of the Government is that we should very much like to see the whole area of biological and chemical weapons brought into the arms control field. The noble Lord will know that the Non-Proliferation Treaty is now reaching a decisive stage. We shall have to consider how we go on from there, and certainly this will be one of the matters that we shall have in the front of our minds.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I give Notice that I shall desire to raise this matter as an Unstarred Question at a later date?