§ 3.20 p.m.
§ THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (LORD SHACKLETON)My Lords, with the leave of the House I should like to make a Statement about the Summer Recess. Subject to the progress of business, it is hoped that it will be possible for the House to rise on Thursday, August 1. It is proposed that we should, after the Summer Recess, return for two days in the week beginning Monday, October 7 —that is to say, Monday, October 7 and Tuesday, October 8—in order to take the Report stage of the Transport Bill. In order not to clash with the Conservative Party Conference, we should then adjourn until the end of that week and resume again on Monday, October 14.
In making this Statement I should say that I am fully aware that, subject to an announcement which may be made in another place, and of which I have no official cognisance, this means that your Lordships will in the next few months sit for nearly a week longer than another 445 place; and that we shall be asking your Lordships to come back for two days, again subject to announcement in another place, before the other place reassembles.
Representations have been made by a number of noble Lords asking for reasonable intervals between the various stages of the Transport Bill. I hope that the arrangements I have outlined will meet the convenience of the House. Perhaps I might add that, although we shall be sitting for a week longer than the other place, we shall none the less be rising at the usual time, and, indeed, somewhat earlier than on some other occasions.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I must say that I find it rather ironic that the noble Lord the Leader of the House, in his usual agreeable way, is asking those of us on this side to co-operate by sitting nearly a fortnight longer than the House of Commons. We are abused by the Prime Minister; he breaks off diplomatic relations with us because we have been naughty boys; he uses rude and exaggerated language; he calls us backwoodsmen, racialists and Heaven knows what!; and the Members of the other place who belong to the Party opposite are equally offensive and equally inaccurate. Now, in a voice of sweet reasonableness, we are asked to help them out of the mess they have got into. And this mess they have got into by bad planning—and that, for a Socialist Government, is rather good!—and because of their incapability of understanding that one can get only a certain number of Bills through Parliament in a given time in a given Session. I think the Government are making a great mistake if they think that the British public is entranced with the amount of legislation churned out by the House of Commons and the House of Lords during the last year.
But, of course, as the noble Lord knows, we will co-operate, because we are responsible people and we are not obstructive. All I ask is that the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, conveys to the Prime Minister and his friends our resentment at what he and others have said about this House, and that perhaps he would explain in words of one syllable to those who sit in another place 446 what exactly would have happened to the Government and their timetable if we had been unreasonable and obstructive.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I am sorry if the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, would prefer me to speak to your Lordships in a disagreeable fashion. It must be obvious to your Lordships that whatever the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, has said, diplomatic relations have not been broken off within this House. This is something we have managed to avoid. It is worth pointing out that there have been days in the course of this year when we have not been sitting and when the House of Commons has been sitting. I cannot accept for one moment the suggestion that because the Government of the day (the noble Lord may or may no[...] think that the legislation we pass is the kind that lie wants) regard this legislation as being in the national interest, it is wholly unreasonable to expect the House of Lords to co-operate and to do their duty as they see fit on the Floor of the House and to meet when necessary.
I should like also to make clear to the noble Lord that my noble friend Lord Beswick, as well as myself—but particularly Lord Beswick—work almost miracles of co-operation in trying 10 meet the convenience of the House. This is as it should be; but it is not an easy job for him. I must say that, thanks to his efforts, business has been going a great deal more steadily and easily than many noble Lords feared. We have been sitting for long hours; but at least it has been in an orderly fashion. I would only say that, while the noble Lord may be sensitive about things that may have been said by the Prime Minister, I only wish the noble Lord had heard what the noble Lord, Lorth Boothby, said about the things Mr. Heath had to say about the Prime Minister.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, when my noble friend conveys these sentiments to another place, would he be kind enough to call the attention of certain Members there who stated publicly that this House does not sit after dinner, that this statement is true only on the numerous occasions when we have sat until 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock at night with no dinner adjournment?
447 SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Hear! Hear!
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, there seems to be unanimity in this House on that point. I can say that I have taken particular pains to point out the facts mentioned by my noble friend Lady Wootton of Abinger. I am afraid that I missed her point about the dinners.