§ 3.10 p.m.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many small arms, semi-automatic weapons and fully automatic weapons have been supplied to the Government of Nigeria in the past twelve months.]
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, as the Minister of State for Commonwealth Affairs told the House on January 29, in answer to a Question about Nigeria, it 440 is not the practice of Her Majesty's Government to disclose details of arms exported to other Governments.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, does this mean that the Government have no record, or does it mean that it would be merely inconvenient to let the public know what is happening? May I ask whether the noble Lord is aware that there is a feeling, which may be right or wrong, that about 60 per cent. of the small arms, semi-automatic and automatic weapons in Nigeria have been supplied by this country? If this is so, is it to be expected that full confidence in the efforts of Her Majesty's Government can be felt by the Government of Biafra?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, of course there are records of these arms sales, and this is not a matter of inconvenience; it is a matter of policy which has been followed by successive Governments, and is continuing to be followed by this one. In regard to the figure which was mentioned, I think that the noble Lord has exaggerated it. We do not supply anything like 60 per cent., or anything like half, of the small arms and other ammunition going into Nigeria at the moment; but, as I have said, the policy that is being adopted is a continuation of the previous policy. We believe it to be right to continue this in the present circumstances, when delicate negotiations are going on about the whole future of the Nigerian civil war. I continue to believe, as I have said before, that the influence which Her Majesty's Government bring to bear on this issue would not be increased, and might be diminished, by any change of policy at this moment.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, can the noble Lord expect the Biafrans to have confidence in the efforts of Her Majesty's Government if they are continuing to supply arms?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I think that the question of confidence in the efforts of Her Majesty's Government is only one of the factors which apply in this case. We have only a certain amount of influence and a certain amount of concern in this matter. This is an international concern. I would point out that much of the movement towards sensible negotiation is being made by the Federal 441 Government of Nigeria, which we regard as the legitimate Government. A good deal of the intransigence and reluctance to negotiate seems to be coming from the other side. I do not believe that this is any function of confidence in Her Majesty's Government.
§ VISCOUNT MONCKTON OF BRENCHLEYMy Lords, while I accept what the noble Lord has said about a continuation of policy, may I ask whether it is a continuation of policy to shop armoured Saracen vehicles, about which we have recently heard. And is that going to open up a mercy route, or a route to finalise the death of Biafra?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, the second part of the noble Viscount's question does not arise, because the answer to the first part is "Yes".
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, in view of the fact that there is a fundamental difference in approach to these matters between the Labour Party and the Conservative Party, could my noble friend tell me why we follow the same policy as the previous Government?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I was not emphasising that in respect to the supply of arms we follow the same policy as that of the previous Government. What I was saying was that we follow their policy of not disclosing the details. We are following now the policy that we have been following towards the legitimate Government of Nigeria, and we believe this to be the right thing to do.
THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, could the noble Lord say whether the volume of arms shipped in the last twelve months has been materially stepped up, or whether, as previous answers have indicated, it has been kept at a steady level?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I can confirm that it is being kept at a carefully controlled and steady level. There has been no substantial increase.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, while it is the policy of the Defence Ministry not to give details of this matter, may I ask my noble friend whether the Press is not frequently reporting that aircraft have left Gatwick with arms for the Nigerian Federal Government, and does this not undermine the attitude of the 442 Ministry of Defence in this matter? Secondly, may I ask my noble friend whether there is any hope, either of the relief of starvation or of a ceasefire being influenced by the British Government while they continue to provide arms to one side in this conflict?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, in answer to the first part of my noble friend's question I would say that I am not responsible for Press reports. I cannot confirm them or deny them. So far as the second part is concerned, I believe that there is a fundamental difference of approach here. The approach of Her Majesty's Government can, I think, be summed up like this. If we were at this moment to change our policy and stop the supply of arms to the Federal Government, that would in no way affect the power of the Federal Government to do evil: it might, however, affect our influence upon them to do good.