§ 11.6 a.m.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government, of the "five vital points" put forward by the elected members and the I.W.B.P. in Gibraltar (namely,
- 1. An unbreakable relationship between Gibraltar and Great Britain;
- 2. Gibraltar should cease to be a Colony and its new political status defined afresh;
- 3. Exemption from the provisions of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act, 1962;
- 4. The transfer of Gibraltar's affairs to the Home Office;
- 5. An affirmation that nothing should be clone by Britain, in respect of the option clause in the Treaty of Utrecht, without the consent of the people of Gibraltar expressed through a two-thirds majority in a referendum)
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (LORD SHEPHERD)My Lords, I am leaving for Gibraltar to-morrow for those discussions and I do not think it would be either helpful or courteous for me to go into details publicly on the eve of my departure.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I am delighted that the noble Lord is leav- 1214 ing to-morrow for Gibraltar. I can only hope that he does better there than he has done to-day in this Chamber. I think we are—
SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Withdraw!
§ LORD MERRIVALEIs the noble Lord aware that—
SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Withdraw!
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, what is the matter with saying, "Is the noble Lord aware"? It is a question. Would the noble Lord not agree that it would have been courteous to your Lordships to have answered this Question, because these discussions have been going on for a number of months and either progress has been made or it has not been made? Would the noble Lord answer that point?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, it is true that discussions have been going on, and discussions will continue. I do not think I have been discourteous to this House. As I am having discussions in Gibraltar shortly it would be wrong for me to say anything on this matter to-day.
§ Loup RHODESMy Lords, is the Minister aware that we rather resent the reflection made upon him? Of all the Ministers in this House there is no question about it, he is the most sincere.
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, is the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, aware that many of us on this side of the House agree, and find the noble Lord extremely courteous? We wish him the best of success in his discussions.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, and to my noble friend Lord Rhodes, but I think he may put in; in some difficulty in saying that I am more sincere than my colleagues.
§ LORD RHODESMy Lords, may I say that the noble Lord is equally sincere?
§ LORD IRONSIDEMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree at least that the points mentioned in the Question are of extreme importance?
§ LORD SHEPHERDCertainly, my Lords.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, may I then ask two supplementary questions? First, will a communiqué be issued at the end of the talks in Gibraltar? Secondly, will the proposals which are agreed upon in Gibraltar be incorporated in an Act of Parliament, as it is the wish of the great majority of the people of Gibraltar that this should be done?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I certainly do not intend to be led by the noble Lord's second supplementary question. In regard to the question of a communiqué, surely that is a decision for the Conference.