§ 2.39 p.m.
§ LORD MOLSONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the 3 per cent. on account pay rise offered to railway workers before productivity talks have ended is in accordance with their incomes policy; and whether the offer of an extra 7d. per hour to Ford's women workers, instead of the extra 5d. per hour demanded by the strikers, is in accordance with their incomes policy; and whether they approve this offer being made before the findings of Sir Jack Scamp's Court of Inquiry have been published.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND (LORD HUGHES)My Lords, the agreement reached between the British Railways Board, the National Union of Railwaymen and the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen of July 6 is in accordance with the Government's Productivity Prices and Incomes Policy.
I understand that the trade union side of the Ford National Joint Negotiating Committee have now accepted the offer made by the Company on July 1 to increase women's rates from 85 to 92 per cent. of the corresponding men's rates. The Company have today submitted for consideration by the Department of Employment and Productivity information about the agreement. The relativity 944 between women's and men's rates is a matter which is appropriate for negotiation between the Company and the unions, and I understand that information about the negotiations has been given by the two sides to the Inquiry under Sir Jack Scamp which is concerned with the dispute over the grading of sewing machinists.
§ LORD MOLSONMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask whether he will give an assurance that the Government will insist upon the productivity agreement for the railways being brought to a successful conclusion? And will they refer to the Prices and Incomes Board the increase which has been made in the Ford works?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I will draw to my right honourable friend's attention the supplementary question directed to me by the noble Lord.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, in view of the fact that this extra 7d. brings the women's wage, for doing precisely similar work, up to only 92 per cent. of that of the men, is not the problem which my noble friend should be asked to solve: "How to bring the women's wage up to 100 per cent. of the men's? Surely, that is the question to be dealt with if we are going to solve the basic industrial problem. Therefore, this 7d. is certainly not enough.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, if I could solve that problem I myself should be grossly underpaid.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, may I return to the less embattled subject of the railwaymen's wages, and ask the noble Lord whether past experience has not taught that wage increases made in anticipation of a new productivity agreement have invariably been disappointing in the railway field? Moreover, may I ask the noble Lord what action the Government would take if, in the event, it were impossible to secure this productivity agreement?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, that is a hypothetical question, the answer to which, if I were to venture upon it, might not be at all helpful.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that at the present time there exists a very unhappy anxiety that this deal is not a good one?