HL Deb 22 January 1968 vol 288 cc11-4

3.3 p.m.

LORD GRANTCHESTER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will abandon their outmoded concept of a balance of power in Europe, shown by their soliciting support from one member against another, which is incompatible with the idea upon which the E.E.C. was established.]

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am sorry to say again that the noble Lord's Question is based on a misunderstanding of Her Majesty's Government's policy. We are not acting as he suggests. Our aim is not to create new divisions in Europe but to make progress towards a united, integrated Europe.

LORD GRANTCHESTER

My Lords, did not the noble Lord himself hear the German Foreign Minister, when pressed to say that he would support Britain's application in the E.E.C. Council of Ministers, publicly reply that if this meant risking the breaking up of the Community the answer was, "No"? Does not the noble Lord consider that it is rather undignified to continue to press and to put pressure on the German Government?

LORD CHALFONT

No, my Lords. If any German statesman said he would not support the British application if it meant breaking up the Common Market I could only agree with him wholeheartedly. We have no interest in breaking up the Common Market. We have an interest in joining the Common Market and helping to extend it into a rich and powerful Europe. Certainly there seems to me to be no indignity in continuing with a policy and an operation of that kind. As I say, we shall go on with this. We feel that we may have suffered a tactical setback on the way, but the strategic aim remains the same.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are many who think that the present attitude a the Government is to isolate France by making separate agreements with the other Five and that this is a dangerous policy, because we may find that if we cannot find an economic outlet, we may lose the friends that we have? Now that we have been thrown out of the Common Market cannot our Ministers stop going to the capitals of Europe with a begging bowl trying to get into the Common Market?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am, of course, aware of my noble friend's reservations about our European policy, but I must say that to suggest that we are "ganging up" against France is to stand the truth on its head. We are not the people who outraged the principle and the letter of the Treaty of Rome by refusing to negotiate on our entry: this was done by the Government of France. What we have now said is that we are prepared to consult on a wide range of things, which do not conflict with their responsibilities under the Treaty of Rome, with any of our friends in Europe who are ready to consult with us. We are not operating against France, we are operating for Europe.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, the French Embassy has sent me a copy of de Gaulle's speech on November 27 after devaluation in which he says that there is no hope for us for years to come. Will my noble friend say whether we are still going to beg to get into the Common Market and not be dignified and try to seek our living elsewhere?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, there is no question of begging or carrying the begging bowl round Europe in this respect. It appears quite clear now, from the Press conference that the President of the French Republic held quite recently, that the possibility of opening negotiations for our entry into the Common Market is not one we can look forward to in the near future. However, we remain clear that our eventual aim is to begin those negotiations and carry them through to a successful end. I say again that the obstacles to our entry are not in this country but on the Continent, and we believe that they will, in the long run, be removed.

LORD GRANTCHESTER

My Lords, in the meantime will the Minister explore the possibilities of a trade agreement which would be of benefit to this country and to some of our partners in EFTA?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I can only repeat that in our view the future of our European policy lies not solely in trading agreements. Of course these are part of the Common Market concept—free trade, customs union and political integration. In our view the future of this country lies in a much fuller integration in Europe than would be represented simply by trade agreements. Full membership of the Common Market is our aim and we are not disposed to look at anything less.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, if we cannot get into the Common Market—and we know that we cannot—can my noble friend say whether we are to mark time for four or five years and not seek trade elsewhere, hoping beyond hope that some day we may arrive at the millennium?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, as my noble friend will know, there is possibly no one in your Lordships' House who is more aware than I am of the danger of answering hypothetical questions. This is a hypothetical question. My noble friend says we are not to get into the Common Market for—I think it was—four years. There is nothing to show when we are going to get into the Common Market. We shall keep our application in and we shall press it as soon as the opportunity arises.

LORD CHORLEY

My Lords, may I suggest to the new Leader of the House that he should take steps to prevent the Starred Question system from being used for the purpose of carrying on debates?