HL Deb 13 February 1968 vol 289 cc3-5
LORD BANNERMAN OF KILDONAN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many schools have been closed permanently in each of the education authority areas of the Highlands and Islands since 1945.]

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, the number of primary schools permanently closed in Argyll during the period referred to is 26; in Caithness, 24; in Inverness, 70; in Orkney, 12; in Ross and Cromarty, 26; in Sutherland, 7; and in Zetland, 18—a total of 183. The number of secondary schools or secondary departments closed in Caithness is 3; in Inverness, 7; in Orkney, 1; in Ross and Cromarty, 4; in Sutherland, 5; and in Zetland, 1. No secondary schools or departments have been closed in Argyll.

LORD BANNERMAN OF KILDONAN

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he does not consider that these figures show a shameful disregard for the economic and social conditions of the Highlands, and the people in the Highlands? Does he not consider that the centralisation of education which is represented by the closing of these schools is an admission, not only by this Government but by other Governments centralised in London, that they have no concern for these areas? Is the noble Lord aware that in the small township of Invershin—and I have the facts with me here—a school is to be closed which has 15 children still attending, and that they are to be sent to some other, centralised school? Further, is he not aware that these youngsters of five years of age may not see their homes in daylight during the whole winter period; and will he not, for the sake of those who live in the Highlands, condemn this centralisation?

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, I do not accept that what has taken place over this period of years is necessarily a shameful thing. What is done in the matter of the closure of schools is done primarily in the interests of the children concerned. I would point out that there has been no acceleration in this process during the period of the present Government. This is a policy that has been going on for more than twenty years. The first consideration given by an education authority—and let us remember that these proposals are initiated by the local education authority; they are not imposed on them by central Government—is what will provide a child with the best education. If we wish to have a continuation of schools at local level, then the thing most likely to bring that about is the policy now being adopted by Her Majesty's Government, of seeking to provide employment on a much wider basis in the Highlands. If the jobs are there, the local communities are larger and there are enough children to justify their receiving a proper education locally.

LORD BANNERMAN or KILDONAN

My Lords, does the noble Lord not consider that the influence of the home on the child at the impressionable age of five or six is far more important than that of any centralised education?

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that the influence of a good home is better than the influence of a bad schools; but it does not necessarily follow that every home is good and that every centralised school is bad.

THE EARL OF IDDESLEIGH

My Lords, can the noble Lord inform me how many primary village schools have been closed in Devonshire?

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, the Scottish Office have not yet taken over the responsibility for Devonshire.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, will the noble Lord agree that not only is this not a shameful disregard over the last twenty years but this tendency of many people who were born and bred in that part of Scotland to prefer to live in England (whether for good or bad reasons) has been going on for a long time; and in fact was noted by Dr. Johnson.

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, I do not accept the fact that people who go to England necessarily do so because they prefer England.

LORD BANNERMAN OF KILDONAN

Is the noble Lord an English nationalist?

LORD HUGHES

I?

LORD BANNERMAN OF KILDONAN

My Lords, I was referring to the noble Lord who intervened.

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, the other noble Lord will not have the opportunity of answering Questions until perhaps the Government after next.