HL Deb 01 February 1968 vol 288 cc863-5

3.6 p.m.

LORD MILFORD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how they reconcile their resumption of normal relations with the Greek Junta with the statement of the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Foreign Office that, "There is reason to believe that the treatment of some prisoners has been excessive even by local standards, which are not the same as ours ".]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD CHALFONT)

My Lords, the fact that we have dealings with a Government in no way implies that we approve of its policies.

LORD MILFORD

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his Answer, may I ask whether he would consider that recognition weakens the struggle of all those organisations, political parties and individuals fighting for full democracy in Greece?

LORD CHALFONT

No, my Lords, I cannot agree with that. The Greek Government meet our criteria for recognition, and indeed no formal act of recognition was requested or made. It is the view of Her Majesty's Government that the best way of exerting influence upon foreign Governments is to have diplomatic relations with them.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, can the Minister state how the conduct complained of in this Question compares with the treatment of literary men in Russia?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think that is well outside the context of the original Question.

LORD GIFFORD

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, in view of the reports that have come out of Greece, and in particular the horrifying reports of the representatives of Amnesty International about the ill-treatment of prisoners, the Government will see that this matter is raised in the Council of Ministers and the Council of Europe, and in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation? May I remind him that these organisations are pledged to defend human rights and freedoms?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I take note of what my noble friend has said, but I think really this is an instance where the best way in which we can operate is to make representations, which we hope will be effective representations, to the Greek Government, and we will do that through the normal diplomatic channels.

LORD MILFORD

My Lords, will the noble Lord reassure us that recognition does not in any way diminish Her Majesty's Government's disapproval of the actions and policies of the military junta? And will the noble Lord tell us what steps have been taken, and will be taken, by Her Majesty's Government to press for the full implementation of the amnesty promised before Christmas, and full democracy in Greece?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think the first part of that question was answered in my Answer to the noble Lord's original Question. The fact that we have dealings and diplomatic relations with a Government in no way implies approval of its policies. So far as the second part of the question is concerned, we will, of course, make all the necessary representations through our diplomatic channels.

BARONESS GAITSKELL

My Lords, will the Minister agree that it would be difficult to base our diplomatic relations on reports of Amnesty International, seeing that there was a report of Amnesty about Aden which was very detrimental to our own Government? Also, does not the noble Lord think it would be a bad thing if the countries involved had stopped diplomatic relations?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that intervention. As I said earlier, whatever reports may have been made from other quarters, the Greek Government fully meets our criteria for diplomatic recognition.

LORD FARINGDON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that this excuse, that by entering into a relationship with an offensive Government one can to some extent mitigate—or is in a better position to mitigate—the badness of their behaviour, is an excuse which we have heard time and time again but, to my knowledge, has never been effective?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I am sorry if the noble Lord feels that way about diplomatic relations. I can only say that the Government believe—and perhaps I might add that I personally believe—that if we are to have an effective foreign policy, and if we are to make effective representations to other Governments, especially if there are aspects of their policies about which we have reservations, the only sensible thing to do is to see that we are not in a situation in which we cannot speak to them. It is for that reason that we have diplomatic relations.

LORD WAKEFIELD or KENDAL

My Lords, would the noble Lord explain why a resumption of negotiations and recognition of the Government of Rhodesia has not been effected, in view of what has just been said? Would it not be far better to recognise that illegal but de facto Government in the same way as has been done in Greece?

LORD CHALFONT

My Lords, I think that question is about as far from the content of the original Question as Rhodesia is from Greece.

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