SMOKELESS FUELS (Hansard, 17 December 1968)

§ LORD BROOKE OF CUMNOR
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD STONHAM)
My Lords, there are no general shortages of solid smokeless fuels. In the early autumn there was concern over the adequacy of supplies of boiler fuel for the South-East, but both the National Coal Board and independent producers are increasing their outputs. Prospects have much improved, and should particular fuels be in short supply alternatives should be readily available.

§ LORD BROOKE OF CUMNOR
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer, which goes some way to reassure me. Is the noble Lord aware that when we debated the Clean Air Bill in the summer an assurance was quoted by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Power, that there was no serious fear of shortages of smokeless fuel? We now understand that supplies will be adequate for the time being. Can the noble Lord assure the House, first, that the Government will carefully watch this matter, so that there is no setback to the clean air policy, and, secondly, that the alternative smokeless fuels will not be so expensive as to put them out of reach of householders?

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, it will not have escaped the noble Lord that I said that there is no general shortage of supplies. That is the Minister's responsibility and he is discharging it adequately and efficiently. The question of any possible local shortage, either of any smokeless fuels or of a particular smokeless fuel, would be a matter for the National Coal Board and for merchants. But with regard to the noble Lord's point about smokeless fuel supplies and smoke control, may I say that a Smoke Control Order would not be confirmed unless the local authority had assurances that supplies would be adequate. So far as increased supplies are concerned, it is expected that the National Coal Board and the independents, mainly Coalite and Rexco, will increase their supplies by about 20 per cent. this winter. Therefore it does not 701 appear likely that there will be any shortage at all. As to the question of price, of course I cannot give the noble Lord any assurance on that score; there is no control over these prices. But if supplies are increasing there should be no reason to apprehend any artificial rise in price.

§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that this position was prevalent in the early 'sixties when I was Chairman of the Domestic Coal Consumers' Council; and is he further aware that, with regret, I really do not feel that the position is as rosy as he has quite honestly made it out to be? Is he aware that alternatives are not what people want, and that often these alternatives are not suitable? I wonder whether he would be good enough to look at the matter more carefully. This situation has gone on for many, many years.

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, I am perfectly aware that this position has gone on for many years. I do not think I am taking a rosy view of the situation. The position of supplies now as compared with 1960 (as indeed is the case with demand) is very different indeed. But I cannot, without notice, answer questions about particular fuels or about individual consumer choice. I can however say, for example, about anthracite nuts and Phurnacite (I have already mentioned two other types of fuel), that supplies are at about last year's level, and the producers contemplate what I should regard as a substantial increase. Until we have actual examples of shortages it is not really fair of my noble friend to say that the position is at it was in 1960. That I do not accept.

§ LORD TREFGARNE
My Lords, can the noble Lord say what is the position of a consumer in a smokeless zone who finds himself temporarily unable to obtain smokeless fuel? Is he then allowed to burn the ordinary type of fuel?

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, my understanding is that he would not be able to do so without committing an offence. I would suggest that the suitable thing to do, if he cannot get his supplies from his usual supplier, is to go to someone else.

§ LORD POPPLEWELL
My Lords, as distinct from some of the criticism that is often levelled in this connection, is my noble friend aware that the N.C.B. are to be congratulated on the may that they have turned to smokeless, fuel? While there may be temporary shortages in given areas from time to time, generally speaking it is not the fault of the producers of smokeless fuel. Is my noble friend aware how well the country is responding to this desire for cleansing the air of atmospheric pollution? Even in the mining areas there is a general, enlightened—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS
Speech.

§ LORD POPPLEWELL
My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the general, enlightened line of approach, that is commendable, in view of all the difficulties that have been involved?

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, I am well aware, as my noble friend has said, of the great and successful efforts which are being made by the N.C.B. in this matter. Equally I agree with him on the importance of increasing the number of smokeless fuel zones, and I am sure that all your Lordships will support that. What I say directly to noble Lords opposite is that they would be the first to complain if we interfered with private enterprise merchants supplying these markets. Please do not put to Inc questions of that kind, because it is up to the merchants. The supplies are there. There is no general shortage. If there is a local shortage, then it is the fault of the distributors.

§ LORD NEWTON
My Lords, I understood the noble Lord to refer to Phurnacite, among other smokeless fuels, and to say that supplies this year are at the same level as they were last year. Is he not aware that in some parts of the country, certainly in the part in which I live, it has for a long time been extremely difficult to get Phurnacite, and that the merchants and distributors say that it is not their fault because they just cannot get it?

§ LORD STONHAM
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I did not say "supplies"; I said "total stocks of Phurnacite". That is not quire the same. "Supplies" implies production and "stocks" implies what you have waiting 703 for delivery. The stocks of Phurnacite are about the same. I will certainly take up the noble Lord's point about the shortage in his area and do what I can; indeed, that applies to any part of the country. I shall be glad to look into that point. The noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Cumnor, did not press this particular point about a local area. I think I know the area with which he is concerned. Certainly we do not want people to go without these supplies, and we will do whatever we can to help in this situation.