§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what support is being given to the United Nations Committee appointed to take over the administration of South West Africa.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD CHALFONT)My Lords, none by Her Majesty's Government. As the then Foreign Secretary told the General Assembly on September 26, 1967, we regret that in dealing with the problems of South West Africa the United Nations has not been prepared to confine itself to action which is clearly practical and positive.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, in thanking my noble friend, may I ask him this question? Even if the Government disagree with the decision of the 467 United Nations, is there not some obligation on them to assist in its efforts? And in this case, where the United Nations Mission has even been refused admission to South West Africa, is it not very desirable that Her Majesty's Government should take steps to recognise the authority of the United Nations?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, it is difficult to know what Her Majesty's Government can do that they have not already done. As I said, the two resolutions of the United Nations under which the action was taken and with which my noble friend will be familiar are resolutions which we think are just impracticable; they cannot be put into effect. That has been shown to be the case by the very fact that the United Nations Mission concerned has failed to gain entry into South West Africa, and I think that any further action that is called for is the business of the United Nations. I see nothing in this case that Her Majesty's Government can do.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, are not Her Majesty's Government represented in the Security Council of the United Nations, and does not this situation demand that there should be a review of this whole position, in which the United Nations may reach decisions but has not the power to implement them?
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware—I am sure the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor and every other lawyer will be—that you cannot pass a law or resolution to compel a man to touch the sky?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, whatever may be the powers of the United Nations in this particular respect, I think my noble friend will agree with me that this is not a case where an individual State can take action. This is now a case for action by the General Assembly or the Security Council. I agree that we are members of both the Assembly and the Security Council, but I think it is very unlikely that a majority vote for any new move in this matter could be obtained in either body, and any action by Her Majesty's Government would, I fear, prove abortive.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, in view of the fact that Her Majesty's Government regard this expedition as impracticable, are they making any protest, or do they intend to make any protest, at the amount of money spent by this Mission? There were reports that they were chartering aeroplanes and staying in very expensive hotels; and it seems that the funds of the United Nations, which are in the red, might be put to better purpose. Would Her Majesty's Government consider making some protest at the expenditure of the funds of the United Nations in this way?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I am not sure from where the noble Lord has obtained his information about these expenses. In fact the Mission concerned could not get an aircraft to go to the territory because the charter companies were afraid that it would he impounded. I think there must be some slight misunderstanding on that point. Whatever may be the expense incurred, or possibly about to be incurred by this Mission, Her Majesty's Government have shown their view about this by abstaining on both the resolutions which brought this Mission into being. I really think there is no more that we can do in this direction.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, in those circumstances, I should have thought that there was all the more reason for Her Majesty's Government to protest at funds being expended in this way. Will they protest?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I do not think I can undertake on behalf of Her Majesty's Government that we will make a protest until we have clearer facts about this matter. Her Majesty's Government have no facts of the kind that the noble Lord has mentioned with regard to expenses. If he has really hard facts, perhaps he will let me have them and I will take up the matter.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, if these gentlemen paid their hotel expenses, their aeroplane fares to South-West Africa, and so on, out of their own pockets, would he inquire what expenses they incurred?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, this really is another question, and one that 469 is quite wide of the original Question on the Order Paper. I repeat that I am not quite clear what the noble Lord means by "the expense of aircraft to South West Africa", because, as I say, the Mission has been unable to charter any aeroplane to South West Africa; the charter companies will not charter them.