§ 3.5 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will instruct their representatives at the United Nations to throw the whole weight of United Kingdom influence against any threat of using force against the South African administration in South West Africa.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD CHALFONT)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government do not consider that the use of force is a satisfactory solution to the situation in South West Africa, and they will continue to exert their influence at the United Nations to obtain a peaceful solution to its problem.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, in view of the fact that a mission from the United Nations is now seeking to enter South West Africa, may I ask my noble friend what alternative method Her 2 Majesty's Government are suggesting to enable them to carry out the decision of the United Nations that the administration of South West Africa should pass to the United Nations?
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord who it is understood is paying for the exercise proposed by the United Nations?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I fear that I know of no exercise or operation proposed by the United Nations The Security Council Resolution No. 246 has been passed, the South African Government has reacted to it, and it is now for the Security Council to determine what further action, if any, is necessary. I know of none.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, in view of the recent statement by the noble Lord that the United Nations is £60 million in deficit, with over forty countries late in their payments, it would seem that the question I asked was justified. Would the noble Lord say whether he has had brought to his notice the deposition of Dr. Muller, the Foreign Minister of South Africa, dealing with the hostile actions of the United Nations towards South Africa, running into some 30 pages, a copy of which I have in my hand, because it would seem—
§ LORD BARNBYI ask the noble whether he has had brought to his notice the deposition of the Foreign Minister of South Africa to the United Nations dealing with the matters which stimulate 3 the proposal reported in the Press of a threat to South Africa? May I also—
§ THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (LORD SHACKLETON)My Lords, I realise that the noble Lord is dealing with a serious point, but the House would like him to ask a question for information. Perhaps he would do that. He is not twisting anybody's tail except that of the House by going on as he is.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Leader of the House whether I may repeat the question—
§ LORD BARNBYIt is of a sufficiently important character. I would then ask: is it not considered unwise at this stage for the United Kingdom's representative to appear insufficiently opposed to the risk of a conflagration in South West Africa, particularly when the South African Government has made clear that it would oppose it with all the force at its disposal?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I think I can perhaps help the House by saying that my attention and the attention of Her Majesty's Government have been drawn to the deposition which the noble Lord has mentioned, but that there is no possible justification for the noble Lord's suggestion that Her Majesty's Government have not opposed, and do not oppose, the idea of the use of force as a satisfactory solution to the situation in South West Africa.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether his attention has been drawn to the new Constitution which the South African Government has proposed for South West Africa, and to what extent this new Constitution affects the feeling of the United Nations with reference to the territory?
§ LORD CHALFONTYes, my Lords. My attention and that of Her Majesty's Government has been drawn to all these facts, but I repeat that it is now for the 4 Security Council to determine what further action is necessary in this case in the light of South Africa's response to Resolution No. 246, if indeed any is required at all. I think it would be wrong of me to bind Her Majesty's Government to any course of action in a hypothetical situation.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend (and I am asking for information) in view of the immediately critical situation where a United Nations mission is on the way to South Africa, without advocating the use of force, what proposals have Her Majesty's Government to make in order that that mission may be successful?
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, before the noble Lord answers that question, may I ask whether it has any retation to the Question on the Order Paper with regard to the threat of using force?
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, I must on this occasion express a certain amount of sympathy with the view of the noble Viscount. I believe that my noble friend's question does go very wide of the original Question on the Order Paper. I can only say that, in the view of Her Majesty's Government, the action that is now needed in this case is action that I hope will be taken by the Security Council, and Her Majesty's Government are prepared for the moment to leave it to them.