HL Deb 04 April 1968 vol 290 cc1320-1

3.8 p.m.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government who are the National Debt Commissioners and when the National Debt Commission last met.]

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, the National Debt Commissioners are the Speaker of the House of Commons, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Master of the Rolls, the Lord Chief Justice, the Accountant General of the Supreme Court, the Governor of the Bank of England, and the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England. They last met on October 12, 1860, under the chairmanship, I understand, of the late Mr. Gladstone.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, does my noble friend consider that this is a suitable body to manage the National Insurance funds?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I agree that there is an element of Gilbert and Sullivan about this; but, on the other hand, it does seem to work.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what directions have been given, and to whom, during the last ten years by the Treasury under subsection (3) of Section 35, or under that subsection as applied by subsection (2) of Section 36 of the National Insurance Act 1946.]

LORD BESWICK

None, my Lords.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, have not the Government been rather remiss? Could they not have managed to invoke the National Debt Commissioners and then have given them some directions?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, some instructions as to management do go from them, as the noble Lord must be aware, but not, of course, under the direct supervision of the Commissioners whom I named. I am aware that this is an interesting field of research and one which perhaps my noble friend would like to pursue, as I see from the Order Paper he wishes to do, on another occasion.

LORD MITCHISON

My Lords, I certainly will accept that reply, with many thanks to my noble friend. But may I ask him whether it is not the case that management has had some singularly unfortunate results?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, they have to this extent: that I understand their real title is the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt.