§ 2.41 p.m.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government, since they have declared that, as a matter of national policy, secondary education in this country should be reorganised on comprehensive lines and since the Glamorgan County Council have adopted this policy for the administrative County of Glamorgan, whether any change is contemplated in the existence or status of the ancient and admirable boarding and day establishment known as Cowbridge Grammar School in the Vale of Glamorgan.
§ LORD SORENSENMy Lords, the Glamorgan Education Authority have, with the approval of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science, postponed submission of reorganisation schemes for certain areas of the County, including the Vale of Glamorgan. I understand that they have not yet reached a decision on the future of the Cowbridge Grammar School.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, while I am very relieved to hear that statement from the Minister, and grateful to him for it, may I ask him, and through him the Glamorgan County Council, to remember that this is a boarding school, the only boarding school, I believe, in Glamorgan and one of the very few in Wales, and if this school is abolished it will act very much to the social and educational detriment of the people of Glamorgan.
§ LORD SORENSENMy Lords, both the Secretary of State and the Education 1576 Authority in the Vale of Glamorgan will take note of the noble Lord's comments, but I can assure him that in no real sense is this admirable school likely to suffer in its status.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I wonder whether I might ask guidance from the noble Earl the Leader of the House. In my experience in this House we have always avoided asking in Starred Questions what one might call constituency questions. I have noticed recently that more noble Lords, on all sides, have been asking rather small constituency questions. I wonder whether we might have guidance from the noble Earl as to whether or not he thinks this is desirable.
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)My Lords, the noble Lord has, without warning me in advance, at any rate for more than a moment or two, raised what is undoubtedly a very difficult question here and one on which I should not wish to pronounce, either in general terms or in relation to a particular Question, without full discussion. Certainly in my experience—I do not know whether the noble Lord and the noble Marquess would agree, as past Leaders—we do try to avoid constituency questions. On the other hand, I should not agree with the noble Lord that we always succeed. It is extremely difficult to draw the line. The whole House is aware that I have no power—nobody has any power—to stop a noble Lord from putting down a Question, whether a constituency question or not, and it certainly does not lie within the power of the Table.
Nevertheless, I should think that the Leader of the House of the day carries some duty, where a Question seems to him to be unduly narrow, to suggest to the noble Lord that it might not be cast in the right form or might be better raised in some other way. I should not like to imply that I possessed such a duty in relation to this particular Question, but I realise that some such duty may fall on the Leader of the House for the time. Nevertheless, if the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, feels that there has been a rather undesirable development in this direction lately, I would only suggest that he and I, and the Leader of 1577 the Liberal Party, should ourselves discuss the matter in the first place, and then, if necessary, refer it to the Procedure Committee.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, presumably my Question has prompted the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, to raise this point. I do not know whether the Question referring to Mr. Kenneth Davies was regarded as a "constituency question". After all, it affects Welsh representation as a whole and is certainly not a constituency question. Wales is a nation, not: a constituency. I would remind your Lordships that at the moment this House—whether it will be so in the future is a different matter, I hope—is a House of Parliament for Wales. Secondly, may I say, if the noble Lord's remark refers to my Glamorgan County Council Question, that the whole point of the Question is that, this being a boarding school, its pupils are drawn from a wide area. That is why, again, it is not a "constituency question". I am always ready to be reproved—in fact, eager to be reproved, when I am at fault—but I do not regard myself as being at fault in this particular matter.
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, I hope I did not even imply, however timidly, that the noble Lord was at fault in any way at all. I have never noticed this passionate desire for reproof on his part, but I will venture to exploit it in the future. Nevertheless, I feel that I have really said all I can say this afternoon: that perhaps the Leaders of the Parties should put their heads together to see whether there is a tendency here which we ought to find some way of checking.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to bear in mind that we must be careful not to limit the freedom of this House, and, speaking as one of the three noble Lords who have had a constituency, I would say that it is extremely difficult to define exactly what is a constituency question.
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, I do not know what the noble Lord means, looking at me, when he speaks "as one of the three noble Lords who have had a constituency." It is true that I once failed to obtain a constituency, if that is what the noble Lord is implying; but there must be a great 1578 many more than three noble Lords who have had constituencies.
LORD REAMy Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that as noble Lords are not allowed to act vis-à-vis the Ombudsman, this is probably quite a useful ventilation in another direction?
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, if I may say so with great respect to the former Leader of the Liberal Party here, I feel that that raises a rather wider and slightly different issue. I should hope that the Leaders of the Parties could now get together.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I should not in any way wish to interfere in the agreement which is taking place on the Liberal Benches upon the defence of the noble Lord, Lord Ogmore; and I was not particularly attacking him, though I venture to think that his second Question was perhaps a constituency question. But surely the point is that we are allowed only four Questions a day, and where we have Questions on matters of relatively minor importance, which are perhaps of importance in constituencies, it limits the opportunity of other noble Lords to ask Questions of more national importance.
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDMy Lords, that, as a general principle, is attractive, at any rate, but I see the difficulty of even implying that a Question, shall we say relating to justice towards some individual, should be excluded. So I feel that these suggested talks are perhaps the only step that can be taken.