HL Deb 08 March 1967 vol 280 cc1436-8

2.38 p.m.

LORD GLADWYN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state the reasons why the costs of the British Army of the Rhine have risen from £145.5 million in the financial year 1964–65, to £203 million in the financial year 1966–67.]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD SHACKLETON)

My Lords, the estimated cost of the British Army of the Rhine in 1966–67 is £169 million. This figure appears on page 26 of Part II of the 1966 Statement on the Defence Estimates. The figure of £203 million quoted by the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, includes also the cost of the Army in Berlin and of R.A.F. units in Germany. The increase, therefore, of about £24 million in the attributable costs of B.A.O.R. between 1964–65 and 1966–67 is due mainly to higher pay and allowances and to the cost of equipping the Forces with new weapons.

LORD GLADWYN

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask whether the Government do not think that this rather remarkable rise in one year in the cost of the British Army of the Rhine might have been lessened if greater control had been exercised over the expenditure in foreign exchange by the British Army of the Rhine?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I think the noble Lord is in some slight confusion. The period is two years, and not one year. I am not quite sure why he is comparing this figure with the 1966–67 figures, when the 1967–68 figures are available for him to consult. If we look at the figures in terms of constant 1964 prices the increase is a good deal less. For 1966–67 the figure of £169 million, reduced to constant prices, comes down to £154 million. Perhaps, to help the noble Lord, I may tell him that the 1967–68 figure is £180 million, and at constant prices this would he £159 million, but I may have confused the noble Lord.

LORD GLADWYN

My Lords, I am sure the noble Lord knows best, but not entirely.

2.41 p.m.

LORD GLADWYN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they can state the comparative cost of each soldier in the British Army of the Rhine and of each American soldier stationed in Germany.]

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, the budgetary cost of the average British other rank in B.A.O.R. is about £1,500, of which about £660 constitutes expenditure in foreign exchange. These figures exclude costs of civilians, unit equipment and Part I works. Part I works are works of over £20,000. We can give no comparable figures for American soldiers.

LORD GLADWYN

My Lords, has the noble Lord seen the statements in the Press to the effect that the cost of each British soldier is one and a half times the cost of each American soldier?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I have seen the statements in the Press. They are largely unintelligible to me and to the Ministry of Defence.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, could my noble friend give us any report about the efforts to reduce this colossal expenditure, in view of the new situation in Europe?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I must say, with respect to my noble friend, that that really is another question.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, could my noble friend explain to my simple mind why it may not be cheaper to keep these soldiers at home?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I am afraid that that, too, is another question.